Wolf's weak points (Formerly in FT Wolf Thread)

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Srider,
you need to put the opium pipe down. I know that you know that I know VF is not balanced. And now I know that you know VF isn't balanced. However there are a bunch of fucking sega fanboy here who think some how VF is so freaking balanced and some how Wolf is a decent character. BS!
What am I saying wolf's risk/reward is fucked up. There are too much risk for the reward. What is wrong with compare risk vs reward character for character? pound for pound wolf gets gimped with every move. For what? just because he has a 80 to 100 point throw? Please okay... he doesn't even have the best throw in the game. What happens if someone uses triple throw escapes, you end up with one fucking choice... PG. Look at the F5 they gave up 5 more point of damage and in exchange now he's throw counter on escape.. WTF!!!!! ( for god sake if the F5 leaves wolf close to the opponent on escape this throw would be fucking useless). Is kind of shit is unjustifable risk for the reward.. WTF Evo TFT is one direction and it does a shitload of damage, goes over low wall. Wolf has to work for his fast gs. Remember Sega made Akira's d/f+pg throw counterable for AKIRA on escape in vf3?? Same fucking shit. And your argument people just have to live with sega's move list is retarded, that's like saying the sky is blue, the ocean is cold in the winter or jerky is faggot.

Look at this clip
http://asx.pod.tv/am-sega/free/vf4ft_ote4y1301.asx
What did wolf do... p throw p throw.. tried to d/f+pk and got pwned... tried to screwhook got pwned... just got owned at the end.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

My bad, let me rephrase.

Can Pai get a combo after d/f+kp? err no..
Can Pai get decent damage if d/f+kp hit? err no..
Can Pai beat all dodges with d/f+kp? err no..
Can Pai eat a free throw after d/f+kp? If ducked, and it often is, err yes...

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
Shang said:

Can you get a combo after d/f+k? err no..
Can you get decent damage if d/f+k hit? err no..
Can you beat all dodges with d/f+k? err no..
Can you eat a free throw after d/f+k? err YES!

[/ QUOTE ]

lightweights MC, u can db+k after, it's really weird, because if u were to try this out in training mode, it's TRable.. but during matches, you seem to get a higher float in most cases,.. see for yourself here at the 01:32 mark and 02:05 mark... i'm not even sure how that works /makes sense (although the match isnt great^^). - try it for yourself. btw, it's also great against walls.. so there's a good plus for big damage.

as for grabbing all evades, wolf doesnt have any full circular moves whatsoever. so it's as good as it gets. it's main good attributes are it's long reach and knockdown. semi circular is a cool bonus for an SK. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

as for eating a throw, it's not really as bad as it could be. i mean no attack is guaranteed, so you can even get lazy and evade / low P if your opponent gets lazy on the execution. kindda like when you have the knee blast blocked.

---

i dont reackon wolf's oki game is high rank either with other characters (ahem kage) in mind, but it's still got some use i guess... or atleast as much as you can squeeze out if it, LOL.

EDIT-- one thing wolf has over pai is the mysterious half damage her swallow kick does to him, it's the funniest thing sega have ever done! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EDIT 2 -- vid is offline right now, just check it again in about a day. my bad.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

llan i think you are missing the point of the conversation. i'm talking about the usablity and the risk of pai's 3k, not her 3kp. when you have a follow up option to a move, that move become much much safer.. in the sense that you have a 2nd chance to guess for what comes next. , it's like although jacky's f+p is -6 on block, you cannot deal with it as a +6 guessing game if you defend it. It's the same case here except pai's follow p is high and jacky's isn't. anyways... pai's 3k is a lot safer than wolf's 3k, that's just a reality even if the frames seem misleading. if you don't understeand then you don't understand.

bk: maybe you need to perfect TR to avoid the 1k in that case. I'm not sure how you can degrade the risk of being at only throw counter. consider how little damage the sidekick does, how slow it is, it's pretty bad to be throwcounter, and if the move is linear it'd be completely useless. Back to the situation of being TC... first of all chances are you are gonna eat a throw against someone with good throw options (goh/jeff/aoi etc), and.. people are always looking for counter hit you in this situation if you mess around with d+p or throwescapes without dodging. If your opponent is just as good as u, chances are you are gonna lose more than you gain if you mess around with 3k too much.
why don't people keep on arguing about shit they are clueless about? wolf's good at wake up games... please... akira, aoi, jeff, lau, lei, lion, sarah, vanessa, kage all have better wake up game. why? all of them have safe options to own u!! even goh has that stupid trip thing. what does wolf have? f+pg/toestunner? what a joke.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
Shang said:
Look at the F5 they gave up 5 more point of damage and in exchange now he's throw counter on escape.. WTF!!!!! ( for god sake if the F5 leaves wolf close to the opponent on escape this throw would be fucking useless).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a little info on the F5 escape -- it's been escaped on me once so far, and when it I happened I remember thinking to myself "That sucks, sega just recycled Jeff's military press (b+P+G) escape". However, I don't know if that escape animation leaves the opponent in throw range. I'm sure someone with the inclination can test it in EVO's training mode with jeff just to get an idea.


cheers,
kbcat

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

shang, dont forget that with wolf's SK, it's possible to get blocked and not be in throw range depending on how far away you are. yeah, that's a little specific, but for long range purposes, it's one of wolf's bread n butter choices.

dealing damage isnt really realistic for a basic SK command (unless u are goh) but wolf's lucky that he has an SK which knocks down, it's good for keeping the opponent pressured with recovery as it can still close off one way of evading too. when u are blocked, the best thing to do is evade+TE for the worst case, but i've gotten away with just evading quite a alot of times. with goh's throw directions, that just happens in VF, go for his worst, just count it lucky he dont get a guaranteed b,f+p instead. *shrug*

as an oki tool, i just threw it in with the rest. the shoulder charge guessing game is one of my favs but it's true that he relies on too much guessing. i mean i remember complaining about wolf a long time ago too at his risk & sucky pressure.

that's why when people say "all wolf has to do to win is GS", they dont realize that relying on a throw command is useless in VF. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

I thought that the fact that Wolf had so many different throw directions to choose from would make it easier to mix it up and make people have a harder time throw escaping ? I really have no clue, so excuse me if I'm wrong. What about the catch/change stuff? I never see it used, there must be a reason. Does it really suck that bad?

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:dealing damage isnt really realistic for a basic SK command (unless u are goh) but wolf's lucky that he has an SK which knocks down, it's good for keeping the opponent pressured with recovery as it can still close off one way of evading too.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you deal damage with goh's sk?

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

KTallguy while it's true that he does have a lot of powerful throws, the reasoning behind the "his throw game is shit" complaints are that he doesn't have many different throw directions. if your opponent escapes , , then Wolf really only has two throw options left; and neutral. neither of these are especially useful.
compare this to kage or jeff, who both have decent throws in four directions () and you begin to see where the complaints come from /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy while it's true that he does have a lot of powerful throws, the reasoning behind the "his throw game is shit" complaints are that he doesn't have many different throw directions, however he can RO in two different directions easily with them and on top of his "normal" throws he has 3 crouchthrow directions, one damaging option and one pickup on a grounded opponent, fucking awesome hitthrows like the toekickstunner that can be used in RN and the best catchthrows in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

There, fixed it for you.

/KiwE

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't understeand then you don't understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shang - of course I understand /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Mind you, you've made a mountain out of a mole hill here. Conversations about who has a better sidekick or shoulder or whatever are really just filler. Regardless of the changes made to Wolf in FT - or the current Wolf you play in Evo - you play the game well enough to work with the changes and make Wolf fun to play. If you'd like, I'll stop playing devil's advocate now, so you can have your Wolf rant some more /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

BK: you are so loveable. I guess you are the glass is 1/2 full guy and I'm the glass is fucking empty guy. I'm not forgetting the 1% of the time you kick them with your toe and out of throw range, I'm ignoring it's Insignificance. Jeff's 3k is much better with range.. yah yah yah it's linear stfu already.

And kiwe: what is so good about the toekick stunner? Let's see.. it has no range, it has no speed it's throw counterable, it's linear, and it leaves wolf on the ground. Explain to me why tks is better than jacky's hit throw in ANY WAY fucking noobie!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

the vid bk was refering to in his post is now up on this link

www.jcjackson.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/bk_AA.wmv

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me why tks is better than jacky's hit throw in ANY WAY fucking noobie!

[/ QUOTE ]

About 10 more damage on normalhit (notice the RN) and faster would be a start fuckwad. You're so ridiculus Shang; taking a move and then comparing it to someone elses and saying theirs is better. "Oh that's not as good as jackys circular!" "Oh he doesn't have akis 666p!" "It's not Jeffrys sidekick!" "Oh kage has tft!" "Oh Pai has a followup to her sidekick!". Talking about how safe Pais sidekick is due to the second p (which you can crouch if you gaurd the first) and that Goh has better Oki it's just bs. "Fuck that being circular and knockdown on normalhit and fuck that I'm not TC when I hit with the tip..." Play dural if you want the best of all worlds or learn to exakt recover Akis reversals (since you whine about Jerky not doing so on your 's) or how much Wolfs highkick reversal does in dmg.

This is all fucked up - you wouldn't play Wolf if you didn't have fun (what else matters - are we progamers who will ever make a living out of this?) with him (and where bored by the characters you praise so much) or if you believed that your experience and gameplay time with him wasn't worth shit when facing an opponent of a "stronger" character. You know damn well (or should) stuff like how hard it is to throw Wolf after gaurding the second screwhook due to it's pushback and the sidekick point BK brought up. But you choose to ignore stuff like that or withhold it cause it doesn't fit in your line of argumentation.

Bottom line; if you already whine about FT wolf and think it's just "cosmetics changes" (when it's clearly not) for your character now quit playing. You've been crying about Wolf now for fucking years (and even went on a rampage when his new moves were shown for FT in the first early footage) - god knows nobody wants to hear it for 4 more (look at your avatar for crying out loud). How does Adam do with Jeff (who's considered "weaker" then Wolf)? You don't see him posting teardrops all over do you? Didn't Ryan H win the singelstourney in UK with Goh? A skilled person in VF can win with whatever char he plays (and no I don't want the tierthread link). Get over it and grow the fuck up and get some balls while you're at it.

There's no point in arguing with you, not because you have one of the best knowledges in Wolf (everybody can whine about their main and hold all the aces in their sleave doing retarded comparisions - specially if it's a character that few play) but simply cause you're so contempt in whining. Yes that's right; you're either totally contempt in having something to blame your shortcomings in the game of VF on or you're the most retarded person ever for not changing your gamecharacter over a spam of many years when so dissatisfied with him. So which is it? Now where do you want that medal for playing Wolf again?

/KiwE ( Conducting the Topgun theme during Shangs medal ceremony)

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Err Kiwe you fucking piece of Grade B human waste.. Toe kick is fucking 1 frame faster than Jacky's d/f+pk. It's -6 on hit that's the same as jacky's on GUARD! It's punch counterable on guard fuck face. How about trying Jacky could get a d/f+k if his hit throw lands and wolf ends up on the ground. Maybe you should fucking suck some more cock then you'll realize the difference between -6 and -12. Yah he has a k follow up but fuck that shit, you ain't gonna do that if you are trying for the hit throw PG, so don't even start.
All of the world? I'm trying to find one fucking thing that wolf has that's better and every comparision has ended with Wolf being a gimp.. as it is. I'm whining about Jerky not TRing? He fucking whined b,f+pk does over 100points of damage... which is fucking retarded.. If you can't fucking TR who's fault is that???! You are a fucking clown comparing Wolf's high kick reversal vs. Anyone's high reverse dude.. do you realize it only reverses highkicks??? Do you realize wolf takes damage while doing it???
And dumbfucker, You cannot throw if you block the 2nd P of the screwhook retard!! But you know what? you can duck that shit so easily and you get a free fucking 70 point combo. If you know he's gonna do a follow p and you guarded then you don't know how to deal with the screwhook. That's your problem, if you can't deal with some shit that doesn't mean the move is good, it means you fucking suck! If i do PK charge to you 24/7 and it works does that mean PK is too strong???
Get off the sega cock wagon with " a skill person can win with whatever shit" ask yourself what if there are two skilled people playing instead fucking moron.
Jeff is weaker than wolf? Right~ Hart won with Goh, that must means all you UK fuckers suck. That's not even the fucking point, He is so much better than you that he can pick a monkey and beat the shit out of you.
FUCK oFF dickface

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
BK: you are so loveable. I guess you are the glass is 1/2 full guy and I'm the glass is fucking empty guy. I'm not forgetting the 1% of the time you kick them with your toe and out of throw range, I'm ignoring it's Insignificance. Jeff's 3k is much better with range.. yah yah yah it's linear stfu already.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^* -- then i think we've rinsed all there is to say about wolf's SK.

the end. have fun with wolf. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

i think i'll get a half full glass of water.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

And Dickface i'm not going out with you so stop sending me stupid gay pictures like this one:

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

[ QUOTE ]
I'm whining about Jerky not TRing? He fucking whined b,f+pk does over 100points of damage... which is fucking retarded.. If you can't fucking TR who's fault is that???!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuck you man, who are these GODS you speak of that can tech roll that slam consistently?? I've seen NO ONE with that kind of accuracy (including japanese) so please PLEASE...


wait for it.....








just a little more.....















S
T
F
U

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Andrew YOU FUCKING MORON!!! NOBODY IN JAPAN USES THIS COMBO!!! Do you know WHY????? Because they know it's gonna get TRed YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!! give me 1 jp clip a wolf does b+p over screwhook in a combo.... face it you fucking suck.. and quite what crying..
"OMG!!11! 100points of damge.. please pass me some tissues cuz i got hit by a shrm!"

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Edit: mod delete my post. Continue with the thread.