Virtua Fighter Psychology

I agree to disagree. Cause in a 2-D and agressive perso is the one who ends up get the worst exchange. Thanks in part to invisble supers, anti-Airs, Assist,Striker ETC. VF is different true you stop a person who excessively attacks but its harder and more different than you think. In most 2-D you can crouch and block anything except for over heads, You cannot be thrown while hurt, You can also jump or super jump for that matter. and in a 2-D games is more base in improvinisation. In a 2-d you will never interupt an opponents combo nor sidestep.

Please don't compare the 2. as far as David listing goes yes he correct about personalites but different games requires different personalites base on the nature of a game.

Honestly Sorias have you ever seen a turtle in , MVC2, KOF98,MOTW, Guilty Gear (A game in which you get punished for it.)alhpa 3? Me neither cause its will fail.With the Guard crush and crash system i doubt you sit there so it can happened.

 

But there are successful turtles in just about every game you just mentioned.

 

In GG they actually make turtling stronger if you actualy know the system. In GGAC when you blcok an opponents attack a bar goes up and when it's maxed you do more dmg. However you can't do this for too long or else your tension meter goes to zero. So there is a balance when you turtle. There is also the FD which lets you take no damage when blocking and pushes your opponent back.

Basically there are a lot of tools for a good turtle.

 

There are ways of turtling in any game... A fire ball trap is a kind of turtling. That is the SF2 version of what Vanessa was doing in that video. Keeping your opponent away and punishing them when they try to get close. It is a way of playing more defensively because you're maintaing range instead of moving in close to attack.

VF isn't that different. It just has a different rock, paper, scissors game. Instead of Dragon Punches beating jumping moves which beats crouching (or sweeps) which defeat standing block. In VF it's the same but it's evade, block and throw instead. You can use that game offensively or defensively if you choose. In SF when they are aggressive you do an uppercut, like you said. In VF, you evade or duck, not a HUGE difference really.

 

One day when all of those games are online we get a game going and well see how far turtling gets you in the game i just mentioned. I played against the best players in though games and you cannot turtle you can be a good defensive person but obviously you must not play either of theones mentioned i guessed.


@Tricky i thought the more you sit back and turtle you get a negative penalty for it in any GG series.

"There are ways of turtling in any game... A fire ball trap is a kind of turtling. That is the SF2 version of what Vanessa was doing in that video. Keeping your opponent away and punishing them when they try to get close."

FAILED!!!!!!! Thats traps and Keep away.

 

I play all fighters differently. So that does not work for me anyway. I turtle in some games while in others I may go full force attacking.

 

First of all, clarify your personal definition of turtle, cause this argument is stupid if no one even understands what's going on. You mean just holding downback? Also, I've played against the best players in both a3 and kof98, on and offline, tourney and non. I assure you I don't turtle in those games. Point I was trying to make is that turtling is possible and has been possible and successful in just about every game you just mentioned.

 

I think turtle concept is larger that a guy only blocking. It's more an overall strategy. Like always dash out to make your opponent whiff, only punish, abusing of DM and punish, waiting for the opponent to come and CH him with a fast mid, but in any case never take any offensive initiative. I don't know for 2d games, but that's how I see a turtle in Virtua Fighter.

 

Whatever Man. I just agree to disagree. Since you probably play with "Pokers" which lead to "Counter spammers" that comes from tournament play or he traditional Japanese "Safe" way.

 

Honestly (and I totally don't mean any disrespect when I say this, everything I'm about to say would apply equally well to me, too), it's because you're not good enough at the game. These psychological profiles we're talking about only show throught when you know a game completely inside and out. It's not a mistake that Sirlin's examples of chess players only include people who basically won world championships. You have to be at that level of play, and have moved that far beyond just learning the standard game rules, for your personality to start showing through.

This isn't about our standard definition of turtle (a guy who blocks a lot). The profile of "turtle" is someone who can completely dominate your average player, and almost never loses a match. And yet, when people watch him play, they go wow... he has a really defensive style, I wish I knew how to block/throw escape even half that well.

SDS: You don't get to "agree to disagree" when you're just plain wrong. Traps and keep away are not "different" from turtling. It's just means effective use of a defensive style of play.

 

keep away is a type of turtling look at Jwong's Chun in SF3rdS. He pokes enough to keep you away so he can build meter then he unloads and repeats. You don't have to be a master to have a style, how do you think they got a style it's not a magical wand and you're given a style when you become a master. It's a slow and laborious process that happens over a period of time. The fact that we can call a scrub a turtle is enough to prove that.

Read the post closely.

Definition of turtle is a very defensive player it dosen't mean you just sit and don't move the whole round. IN GG if you're going to turtle you have to know how long you can be passive for without getting the tension penalty. because you get a dmg Bonus for blocking a particular amount of moves before attacking again. What you do to prevent the inaction penalty which is what you're talking about is just dash forward and it resets. So if you just dash enough to keep the game happy and block enough to get your max dmg modifier you have a turtle. A VERY skilled turtle but a turtle none the less.

Over here at my college we got some of the best GG players around . . . the guys who go to evo and they'd tried to teach me how to throw down but I can't get the hang of it. I rather dedicate my time to VF5. FRC's are just hell to me.

Really people's inability to see that all fighting games leave the ability open to have different styles of playing have very closed minds (no offense). There's always more than one way to a solution as complex as how to use a character and fighting system to kick the shit out of your opponent and if you're so blind as to not be able to see more than one solution I'm really sorry for you and don't understand how you can really enjoy playing the game. Part of the fun for me is learning new styles of play and new ways to beat on someone that are not conventional.

 

My point is.. a terrible player can "turtle" and block all day, and lose horribly (to 0-frame throws), and turn around the next match and go all out abare, and lose to the same player (to well timed counter-hits). That isn't "style"... that's just someone fumbling around with game mechanics, and trying to find something that works. In fact, the only reason to make a change like that is because the players knows they're defensive game is weak, and they can't back it up with good play. The "winner" in this scenario just has to play a consistent moral game, and they're basically guaranteed victory.

Someone who has really developed a personal style of play that they use consistently and effectively doesn't play that way. They understand the game well enough to note that very subtle changes (crouch guard/fuzzy just slightly more often to avoid those throws), and still continue winning. Yes, people a bit below the level of absolute masters might still have a unique style, but you do have to be pretty damn good to be at the point where your gameplay can show off your personality, rather than just showing off particular applications of disjointed game mechanics.

 

I want to get this out of the way first

Webster Dictonary def of style:
a particular manner or technique by which something is done, created, or performed <a unique style of horseback riding> <the classical style of dance>

there is nothing in there stating your ability to perform your style it's there regardless

you don't need perfection to have a style. It's just a WAY of playing intentional or not. If you asked every master player what style they're using i'm sure not all of them will be able to say "I use such and such style" they just do it. A style is just a way of approaching the problem of beating your opponent. YOu can do so by being more moral and only attacking when you have adv or you can use deception to trick your opponent into thinking your going to do the same thing every time to fish for a CH.

I'm sure as hell you have a particular style you're using right now to play, it's not probably going to be your final way of playing but at this exact point in time you play a particular way. It might not be the same way you play tomorrow because you may have learned something new between now and then, and then you will probably add new components to your style molding shaping it to fit how you want to play the game.

Don't mistake a style for being something more than it is. It's a WAY of approaching the problem and a way of adapting to your opponent and forcing your opponent to adapt to you.

I don't realy want to keep belaboring the same point so I'm not really going to argue about the existence of styles, believe it or not it's up to you guys now.

 

You would be right if we were actually talking about "style", Tricky. But this was a discussion of pscyhological profiles in players. It happens that style analysis tends to be involved when determining that kind of profile. However, it's a means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

For example: It is part of my particular "style" that I low punch too much. However, that's not part of a profile, you learn nothing about my personality from watching me lose over and over because my low punches get counter-hit... it doesn't make me a turtle, or an attacker, or even a part of the obsessed class (I use low punch too much... but not all the time, and I actively seek to use it less, not to find interesting ways of using it more... I just happen to kinda suck, so it's a bad habit that hasn't gone away).

Much of your post is exactly right... styles evolve, especially in newer players they can evolve quickly, but your "profile" does not. It's only once you've mastered the game, and know all the ins and outs, and your style has stopped changing very much, that your personality can show through.

 

I was always talking about style, I never really was talking about profile. i don't even know what you mean by that, it kinda sounds like semantics unless you mean profile to be someone's personality then yeah I donno about that. someone's style is dictated from your personality. A style doesn't choose a person the person chooses the style.

 

Um... have you read the first three posts of this thread, and more importantly, the two links in those posts. I don't really know how to explain it well... you're right there is definitely semantics confusion going on.

I don't know that there's really all that much to discuss. If you read the two links, the question was "does that information still apply to VF players despite one article mainly referring to SF3/MvC2, and the other mainly referring to ST/Chess?", and the answer is "yes". I'm really just trying to explain why the answer is yes... if you want to move to something beyond that, go ahead, and I'll stop complaining.

 

There is a psychology of VF players. But first separate the psychology at the generic gamer level. People's psychology tends to be consistent across game titles. So someone who is risky/aggressive in tenchu might bring that same approach to VF. But once you factor out that, you're left with players who really understand VF and they tend to develop a psychology that is specific to VF and does not translate to other games or even other fighting games.

This is where "martial arts" psychology and VF intersect. There
will be mental and strategic similarities between martial artists in the real world and martial artists of virtua fighter. If you understand the martial arts and the psychology at play in the martial arts (all forms) you will see that VF is a form of martial arts itself. Only masters really understand this.

So as far as specific categories I can only speak of the styles that I have come across:

From the CRANE we learn grace and self control.
The SNAKE teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance.
The PRAYING MANTIS teaches us speed and patience
From the TIGER we learn tenacity and power.
And from the DRAGON we learn to ride the wind.

And of all of these I have learned the most from the dragon.

To deny these in ourselves is to deny that which makes us one with nature. Only acknowledge them, and satisfaction will follow. To suppress a truth is to give it force beyond endurance.

The question: Is there a Virtua Fighter Psychology?

The cobra seeks to fix the eye of the bird, before it strikes. In that moment of looking at each other, each accepts their role-
predator and prey. Fear creates the victim. Yet, something in the bird makes it seek the eye of the cobra.

I have lost to over 50 VF masters and every one of them
was psychotic!

Virtua Fighter Psychology Yea!

Snake, Tiger, Dragon, Eagle, Monkey, Panther,Turtle,Shigumi,
Crane, Drunken Master, Shaolin, PitBull, Beast, Rhino, LuBu,
Unsafe, Shadow,Sucker-Zen,Masher,2P,Form-without-Form, Round-3,

The Sifus already know this. If you disciples out there stay in the game long enough you will learn this.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

I personaly like Round-3 a lot.