VF5 Aoi Thread

hey, I'm pretty new too, and I'm not amazing or anything, but I'm becoming decent. I may be wrong but it seems like

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with a quick jab and then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a pretty good combo, I use it a lot. If the opponent doesn't tech roll, I'll follow up with a ground throw.

 

Two random points:

First, to answer my own question: Ground throw after 33P+G is not guaranteed, even though the lifebar in-game shows it as such. However, if they try to struggle out of the way of the ground throw, you can land a 8K+G point instead. Mmmm, meta.

236P+K (blocked) 236P+K is a funny ass sequence that is worth using sparingly if you think they're going to attack (something out of various levels of disadvantage). If they block it, they should know they have significant advantage (236P+K is -9 on guard), and will attack even more vigorously -- but throwing that move out again will beat most high and mid punches and kicks. It will still lose to middleweight high jabs and low jabs, but with that much initiative it's unlikely they'll do something so conservative. Just be careful -- even if it CHs (like if they tried to throw you), you are still at disavantage (-1).

Combos should be listed above in the thread. More than enough to be suitable.

Just trying to think of a quick 'starter pack' of move usage, ignoring the commonplace 5P/2P/3K (her 3K is solid, though... deceptive range given her size).

6P is a really good elbow; she has a lot of tricks off of it but I don't really know just how much it is in her favor. You can roll:

6P (stop)
6PP (second hit is half-circular but now hits high)
6P delay P (the delay window isn't as big as it was in Evo/FT)
6PPG into whatever (0-frame throw kekekekeke)
6P delay PG (3rd level trickery)

Just remember that after a 6PP hits normally you are still at disadvantage. You also need to hitconfirm the stagger off of it; 6PP when the first hit hits someone crouching staggers and then knocks down.

43P is her fastest mid (and the fastest in the game?); at minor disadvantage this beats everything except a low jab. People can crouch block it though, and I haven't figured out what to do off of the stagger (just use it as frame advantage plus pushback). Just be aware that this move has no range whatsoever. If they step back at all, this will miss and Aoi gets to ride the pain train as your opponent uses whatever whiff punisher they have.

6P+K is the hots now. i13 (one frame slower than her jab!), half-circular, can verify into P extension for ok damage (30), -1 on block. The elbow extension can also be G-canceled for extra fun and 0-frame throw openings. Only negative against it is that it hits high.

Mid-range you can use stuff like 66P (which is also guard-cancelable; learn the spacing to G-cancel it close enough to land a throw), which also hits mid, half-circular, and knocks people the hell back.

2K+G is her one legit low attack (full circular too!), and gets her low to the ground, but it only knocks down on CH and puts her at -6 on NH. If this gets blocked, you're in a world of hurt. If you are playing someone that can block this on reaction (aiya), you can Guard-cancel it to give them trouble (and a low throw for their troubles).

44P+K is useful from close to mid-range; if you think they're coming at you (or attacking with a jab or something short range at close range), this attack steps back about a character width and then pwns their face for a free juggle (P, PPPK usually). Also guard cancelable for tricks and an alternative backdash. Do not let this move get blocked; it's a free jab or throw attempt for your opponent if they to guard it.

66K is her new NH launcher, good for punishing whiffs. Juggle damage is kind of assy on anyone other than lightweights, but you take what you can get. Don't throw this out indiscriminately, it's a guaranteed punch/throw attempt on block.

66P+K has a ton of range, does decent damage, and the extension knocks down on hit. Careful with this move on block though -- while throwing out the P extension and getting it blocked is a small problem (going from -5 to -9), your real issue is that people will fuzzy guard under the second hit (since it's now high). Also, Shang tells me to not use this move, but what does he know. :V

That's not nearly comprehensive (I don't mention her throws at all, which she has a lot of, which need to be integrated into your game plan to be effective at all with her), but it should be a general start. Several people on here know better than I about her, and can offer corrections and/or the fact that I'm slightly retarded. :3

Best 'general' suggestion is to watch the Aoi matches included with VF5 and pay attention to what moves they use, and what situtations they use her moves in.

 

Good shit dipstick thanx man!

 

Wow, i'm rather surprised on how dead the Aoi threads have been lately. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif You'd think the cute japanese girls would get more luvin'.

Here's a good question for some of you rad "impenitrable" Aoi players. Her reveral game is quite off the chain obviously, however it probably shouldn't be used as a primary function, but when the time comes, what are the best tools to decipher between using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif vs. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif? When heavy yomi is floating around, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif seems crazy evident so that's not really in the equation here. Really, just what do you cats think?

Oh, also. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions after being BTed? I have seen a bunch of people complain that they are gimmicky, I can see that, but maybe i'm just missing something. Other than some random counter hit-hoping and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif~ I don't see why it should be used. (why didn't they give her some pimp-ass backstep grab thing? Steven Seagal would, dammit!)

 

It's dead because there just isn't a large flow of people who come to this site and an even smaller amount actually post. Example, I'm looking right now, 12 registered users and 17 anonymous. This is actually a lot, sometimes I see it a lot less.

With that out of the way, It's also because AOI Stinks in this game. And if it wasn't loyalty as my Previous number 2 character, I wouldn't touch her. Seriously though, I was looking for her to improve from VF4, but it seems to me that she went down, it starts with the 12 frame punch and then continue onwards from there. (I was hoping they got rid of that terrible push throw she has. In the heat of battle, both people with low energy, you don't know just how much I hate that ******* Push.

I'm no AOI expert but it depends on who you are playing. You definitely can't reverse all the time, so you have to determine when to do it. So then if you've been killed it ppp or any other high combo then go with the high reverse. (you really shouldn't be killed with that anyways). Or if you play someone who when the times get tough, falls back to ppp then there you go. but for me, if I have to decide and put my match on the line, and Not including the down reverses, then I usually default to the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and reverse the mids. If you are truly trying to read someone's move on the fly ie.. read that he is doing a 11 frame jab, then I just don't think you have the time to do that and if you constantly do that, you subject to getting blasted with whatever large combo your opponent decides. So my answer is pre-read your opponent and anticipate his next move based on past patterns then to read on the fly.

 

After playing for a bit, here are some of my tips for VF5 AOI, some of the stuff might been posted by other vfers already.

Basically you need to master your hit checking skills for her in VF5. EG: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

First /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: when playing an experienced player, it's easy for them to guard the 1st hit then crouch the 2nd and hit you. It can either be a 0 throw or a quick combo starter!! As for G cancelling it, use it with great care too, people will try to trade hit with their big attacks before your throw even comes out.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : Mainly used as -14 counter attack. The second hit connects above minor counter.
It can also use as a poke if you like, it's 13f exec. only 1f slower than her standing P and small disadv. on guard (-1f). So hit cecking is essential if you want to use it as a poke( remember the first hit is high)

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : exec. 15f connects on counter hit, the only mid~mid string for her. it's like a subsitute for her old 6P+KP move in VFFT but with more disadv after 1st hit being blocked. It is because you are back turned if you stops at the 1st hit, which means no ETEG or fuzzy guard. BT tenchi and reversal are risky too. Even it's a not so great move on stats. but I found it a good combo ender for light weights and if you play the delay game right, it can be quite handy

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: exec. 16f, G cancellable, connects on counter hit and leads to combo. The only move I found very useful in VF5 for AOI. Again hit checking is important due to 2nd hit is a high hit. On top of that, you need quick input for 2nd hit. the window for it is kinda small, opponent can struggle and block/ crounch the 2nd it if you are too slow.

I will type some more later. cheers

 

Awesome -- thanks nin. I'm also trying to understand how Aoi can be played (without awesome yomi skills) and look forward to your guidance/insight.

 

Are you trying to use her now? LOL She is even harder to use in VF5 IMO. You basically need to know your opponent's setup and string very well, so you can fuse in the YY stance and reversal game. Ofcos, given that you have master the follow ups after a successful YY or reversal. An extra tip is that her reversal comes out very fast, you use a reversal+ TE after you wiff a move. Also use reversa on rising attacks can be quite rewarding.

At the end of the day Aoi is more about how well you can mentally damage your opponent. Making them doing what you wait them to do. I will talk more about it later

 

Please do talk about it more. I for one would kill to hear more insight on her strats than I have so far.

Nin, a recommendation, presuming you probably have a wealth of knowledge about little Aoi more so than I; could you elaborate on "mental damage" when combating a veteran+ player? I know that is a high demand but I have faith in ya' hommie! You did say,"I will talk more about it later" Mwuahahaha! Not only would it open up my horizons a little, it might help some of the ghosts out there too. ^_^

Yes, I know she is dumbed-down in contrast to VF4, but I believe that when she is pushed to the Nth degree the pressure can be about as bad as the likes of Akira, Lau, Brad, etc... It's all in how far you are willing to go with it.

best-

 

continues from previous post.

When I said giving mental damage to your opponent, it's more like making them doing what you want them to do, let them think twice before doing an attack or scare to do anything against you.

AOI's game starts when she is in disadv. She had a lot of tools to turn the table around. Eg. 236P+K, YY stance, Reversals, 64P, 4K+G. To utilize these moves you need to understand hit levels and hit properites in a deep level. So you will need a lot experience and observations and practice. If you use these tools right your opponent will probably be forced to throw more or doing big attacks more or even doing a lot of low attacks..
then you know what to expect and how to deal with it.

She also have a lot of throw directions, this can keep you opponent busy guessing if you have the habit to switch throw directions.

I will write about YY stance follow ups later. Which I think is very important for AOI.

 

YY stance follow up in VF5

after inashi high or mid P, elbow, Middle Kick>>> 64P+KP or 6PP

after inashi high or mid kick and knees >>> 33P+K/ 66K

Beware of camera change after inashi, watch carefully before command input.

 

Nin! Wow! This is exactly what I need. I noticed that after mid kick or knee inashi, I can't do 44P+K like in FT.

On a side note, everyone serious about Aoi HAS to listen to Nin!

 

Haha Danny you are welcome, I am still trying to work out a way to play VF5 AOI. I wish people here can come up with some nice ideas for me too. Here is a good link for AOi movies.

http://zr.x0.com/up/upload.html

movie No. 47 is a must watch!! Fancy VF5 AOI play that I am looking for!!

 

Thanks for your links and your posts.
It was really hard for me to play Aoi in this new version.
So many changes.
- No need to mention the high elbow in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
- The YY stance guaranteed follows up were at first pretty difficult to use because of the camera angle changes.
I wondered why /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif didn't hit after the kick parry, while /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif worked.
- The range of the sweep have been decreased ( I know it was already in VF4FT)
- The side step from the stance seems evade less now, I get hit a lot during its execution. Maybe there is a "failed evade" now?
- I really love /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif but I can't really find a good use of it ( that is to say, to evade stuffs in disavantage situations). Except in oki after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw because it seems avoid rising attacks in this situation.
- Moves from BT...too slow even if the range of BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is nice.
- I love the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to punish whiff moves. Maybe it can even evade low attacks in the last frames?
- About the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif... some times when I wanted to do the light down attack, the punch attack move came out instead.... Is there any tips?
- /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif....Why did they make it techable?

Btw, the Aoi player in the VF5 replay is very amazing. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

 

for the down attack you should do a short dash then do it. so the command would be 66 neutral 3P

as for her new 64P+G throw being techable, it's a mind game for both. If they dont tech you can go for 64P+KP~ down attack( they can recover this). If they tech, you can play the nitaku game. On top of that, this throw can be used as a ring out tool. A total of 4 directions of throws that can exchange position from standing.

 

Playing VF5 Aoi is one hell of an up-hill battle most of the time iv'e noticed.

Here are some random tidbits I have found from observation when playing. More evident than the last installation, the time after a failed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif seems stretched. I don't really think it is but it seems it. A lot of times the opponent flies in after you when they notice the catch grab didn't happen. A good follow up is a back dash and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif then your usual combo follow up, it's not bad for a spur of the moment spacing tool that may net some damage.

Aoi's BTed stuff isn't very impressive that I have found, please someone prove me wrong, but a quick YY, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after a down throw or a stressed moment gets you the hell away to set up another strategy. Even doing her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif along with the opponesnt's ground roll movements hinders the opponent's ability to take over the ring.

Also, I was testing the time it takes between some of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif cancel strings and I found some mixed emotions about them. I found probably the best of the group would be a toss up between /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif series, and the worst time gap, longest befor you can toss a throw out, being after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, and the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif string cancels, with the rest, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, etc..., being somewhere in the middle ground.

Another thing, has anyone found the sabakis: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(kick and knee) to be very useful? I can only justify using the latter with Sarah, little Kage, not much Pai, and very little Vanessa at certain moments.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif was always handy for reasons other than the sabaki properties (which are icing on the cake). Aoi goes low enough to avoid quite a few attacks, and the crumple on counter gives you a down throw opportunity.

Not sure about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. I used to play Aoi a bit, but haven't really messed with her in VF5 much. Mostly on account of it's like pulling teeth. High risk, low reward? Yum!

 

Sabaki tips: Don't just try use it as an one off hit or miss gamble move. Try to read your opponents pattern more.

Also you can use them between the strings. This way you know exactly what level/ class move to expect if you done your homework! Eg, use 4K+G against the third hit of Vanessa's 6PPK. or 64P on Sarah's delayed 6PK 9 block the 1st and sabaki the 2nd)

 

Yay, more homework! This is starting to make me think of the days when I played Guilty Gear's Baiken like crazy. 2D frame anlysis ftw.

Thanks again for the input, Nin! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Hey nin thanks for the insights. I think as a result of people constantly complaining about Kage (my main since I first played VF), I am attracted to also playing low tier characters such as Jeffry.

I've been playing Aoi in quest mode recently and I find her very hard to use. I think AM2 made a big mistake 1) making her punch 12 frames, and 2) making the second hit of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif high. IMO it makes guessing games with her elbow really difficult now that opponents can be attacking, throwing, standing, or crouching after the first elbow is blocked. I also don't understand why BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif leaves her at disadvantage on normal hit -- it makes her BT game excessively weak.