VF4:EVO Tourney at TiT5(Dallas TX), 3/22/2003

Re: Iron man

Im sure we can do both. Team battle just for fun no prizes other than bragging rights. Im pretty sure the Tekken tournament will run a lot longer than the VF tournament and we can probably fit in single -double elimination tournament and a team battle.

What do you think cosmic forge?

 

Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

As far as Brackets go, this is what I've seen in previous tournaments: they'll take down names of people and their locations, then make sure that no two people from the same location face off in the first round. After that though, is entirely up to fate.

How that is actually accomplished can vary, but the best way IMO is to organize folks into crews to ensure you dont play your own man first round.

As for team battles... our problem here is time constraints... gotta remember, there are 4 or 5 other tournaments on the same day, (TTT, T4, GGXX, MKDA, dunno about SC2), so we will be hard pressed for time.

My suggestion is that if team tourney is really desired, we can set it up either the Friday evening before, or perhaps after the whole tourney is over (time allowing).

Someone asked again about character changing I think... the rule still is you can change chars after each fight if you wish.

Finally, I did some research on hotels.com, and found the best deal to be Wingate Inn - Addison. It's the closest hotel to the tourney site, and each room has internet access (dunno if pc is provided, so bring a laptop just in case, /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ), and it's running about 56 bucks a night.

My crew is gonna check in friday around 3pm, and leave sunday at 11am... we still haven't reserved it yet in case someone finds a better deal or place to stay.

 

Re: Iron man

[ QUOTE ]
Llanfair said:


... with help and some coordination, you could run a 32 person ironman on multiple machines. Everyone would have to be on the ball, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Here's my two cents...

Seeding and tournament need to take place in one day (schedules are too tight for many players and the venue probably isn't available the next day).

SoCal van to Texas should be carrying at least two import PS2s and two EVO discs to help with the multiple machine setup. Other Socal players have import PS2s and may bring them as well. We may be limited by number of TVs and space in the venue.

I can help run the Iron Man (I don't want to do it alone, though). I think we should make it one big pool. We're all traveling great distances for such a short span of time. It would be great to play everyone in the tournament at least twice.

After the iron man we have a double-elim tournament in accordance to what's posted on the TiT5 thread.

SoCal van will be leaving immediately after the tournament so any equipment we bring will have to go as well (unfortunately).

This is going to be so fucking cool /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

I could be way off here with a solution, but how about this:

No Iron Man seeding, we just jump right into the tourney. We all have our names and which crew we belong to written on a piece of paper and thrown into a hat. So my paper would say ModestMouse - Team JunoSect , and Junosynth's will say Junosynth - Team JunoSect . Then, someone like Cosmic_Forge will draw 2 names out and if they aren't from the same crew, they play first. If they are, Cosmic_Forge just throws back one name and chooses another. We do this for each station we have set up. The winners of each match gets their names put into a winners hat, and the losers gets their names in a losers hat. Then, after all the names are gone from the original hat (there may be a bye), Cosmic_Forge does the same random (while still crew seeding) 2 people pick out of the losers hat, and the losers get eliminated, while the winners move on. Then he does the same for the winners hat, and the losers of that go into the remaining losers hat, while the winners move on to the winners hat. Losers hat plays again and whoever loses gets eliminated again and the winners move on. Something like that. That way, no crew will ever have to face each other until it's absolutely neccessary, and every match up will be completely random except for the crew seedings. Is there anything wrong with doing it this way?

I actually don't mind an Iron Man seeding, but I'm afraid it's going to be so long, and very disorganized. If these two problems can be resolved, then let's do it.

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

here are my 2 cents. My guess is most people will arrive by friday night. If we do Ironman it must be done on this night and then the tourney portion on Saturday. After original tourney we can have a quick team battle set up. If no Ironman then lets do random drawing, but i too would like a chance to play and get to know the other players. To me I'm not going Texas for the tournament. I am going to meet other players. I could care less if I lose or win I just want the chance to play everyone. That is all... Brian with an "I"

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

Well if the majority really wants the Iron Man seeding, we can do that Friday... but we gotta set a time and place that everyone can make. The tourney site won't be available for (console) use then, so we'll need to do it somewhere else...

Perhaps Dom (lil twin) can help us out here? Dom? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

Why not just do single elimination with groups A,B,C,D? Why should seeding even matter, unless you are scared to get beat by a random newb out of luck. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

[ QUOTE ]
Cosmic_Forge said:

Well if the majority really wants the Iron Man seeding, we can do that Friday... but we gotta set a time and place that everyone can make. The tourney site won't be available for (console) use then, so we'll need to do it somewhere else...


[/ QUOTE ]


The prob. with Fri. is not all of us will be coming till late fri night. I know I won't arrive in till later that night around 3 or 4 Sat morning.

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

I'm down with whatever the man that is running the tourney is down with. I'll play whoever, whenever, for however many matches. If I lose I go to the losers bracket and then I won't have to worry about him again. I did like the way the tourney was run in NYC with a Round Robin, but, it is a bit time consuming. I'm down with whatever /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif. A team battle could be fun too if we had some extra time. Can't wait to see everyone there! =)

ps- Spotlight Swallows!! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

what exactly do you think I swallow?

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

just an interesting thing to point out. I was looking at the VF evo tv commercials and promo video again and I noticed one thing. It seems to me that VF evo home version might have an internal bracketing system. If so that might be a really neat addition to the tournament.

and my vote goes toward
Team Battle > iron man seeding

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

[ QUOTE ]
Why should seeding even matter,

[/ QUOTE ]
To Srider /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seeding matters because you can end up with the two strongest players pairing off early on, etc. Without seeding you can have someone get to the finals by following a significantly easier run. The reason round robins work is because that separates the field properly as everyone plays everyone first. Furthermore, without seeding, there are no upsets, either. Upsets, imo, add to the character and atmosphere of a tournament.

To everyone else:

Now this isn't my gig. However, I have run more VF tournaments than anyone on this continent. I'm just expressing what I think, and I think that a tournament in which people are assigned into matches based on their geographical region is retarded. Round Robins (however one may want to do it, I suggested Ironman, but that's our thing) normalize the playing field.

As much as I agree with people not wanting to play against people they play against all the time - remember, this a supposed to be a tournament. Not a gathering. If it's a gathering, fine, move about your tables and play against people you've never met. But if it's a tournament - then run it like a tournament, not a get together.

I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm not trying to be harsh. But I know a tournament when I see one and I know that if I were going to TiT and it ended up being a gathering because of geography, then I'd be pissed. It's called Tournament in Texas. Not 'Get-together-with-people-from-VFDC-and-play-VF' in Texas.

cheers,

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

I appreciate your input Llanfair, it makes sense to me. I hope the tournament is run with Iron Man seeding and goes straight into double elim.

Next comment - how much input do we actually have on how this is all run? This is a TiT that we're invited to participate in - not a VF4Evo tournament that we're putting on ourselves. I realize that our help in running may be welcomed - but maybe it isn't.

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

I'm gonna get people mad with this.. but I'll say it anyways. I totally agree with Llanfair that since this is a tournament, it needs to be like a tournament. Which is exactly why I believe random brackets and single elimination is the way to go. Now you might think that "if I get eliminated the first match.. I've traveled to Texas for nothing." Well, tough, it's a tournament, you shouldn't have lost. Better luck next tourney. Even if you do a double elimination tourney, it's still possible to get totally eliminate really fast, and a double elimination tourney just means that you have to watch other people play an even longer tournament. I guess it's because there are not that much game tournaments in the US, and that's why people feel like it's more "fair" for a double elimination tournament. I've always thought that "fairness" is just an illusion. If you get eliminated early on, it just means you'll have to play that same guy again later, or people that are even better who have eliminated that person. So a double elimination tourney just gives you another "chance" at coming back, it doesn't make it MORE 'fair' than a single elimination tournament. Maybe you'd say "I just played shitty that one round, it's not really how good I am.." Well, you're not consistent enough to always win then, maybe that means you rely on luck to pull a good match, which I guess it's something that's more possible with double elimination. I guess people aren't comfortable with the possibility that they might "lose the first match" to someone they don't expect to lose to, but it's a tournament for crying out loud, it's not league play. If you're good, people know you're good just watching you. You don't have to win a tournament to prove it.
If there are more tournaments, then people would feel less grief about losing, cause there will be another one soon enough.

On the matter of seeding, even if you do it randomly, you can still have an exciting tournament with upsets and stuff like that. Doing a round robin is good if you want accurate representation of people's skills, but we are not playing in a league here, it's just a tournament. Doing round robin seeding just takes the unpredictability and mystery out of the tournament. Cause you'll know how well everyone plays pretty much. Which is why I don't see a reason for doing that in a tournament. If you're good enough to win, you'll win most likely. If you're gonna get eliminated, you'll get eliminated sooner or later. You don't get a second try in the Olympics, just wait till the next one, which is what I think should apply to game tournament.

This is nothing personal against you Llan /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif it's just my thought on playing in a tournament. I guess if the number of participants is small, then a double elim tourney is more suitable, otherwise I think single elim is the best choice. I emphasize that this is just my thoughts and opinions, there are upsides and downsides to any kind of tourney organization. But after all, it all depends on what everyone else wants, and most importantly, what the organizers decides on.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

It's good to have some discussion regarding tournament format - I have no problems with this /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do have issues with a single elimination tournament, though. My view on it is primarily based on number of participants. With a small amount of participants, a single elim tourney lasts all of 30 minutes. With larger numbers, I can see moving to a single elimination format. Chances are, the number of people at VF tournaments is not large. Having a double elimination format allows people to play more, that's all. Sure, there's that 'second chance' happening, but that's really no big deal.

Back to seeding. I can't begin to say how important it is. Practically every single tournament uses seeding of some sorts. From professional sports to Starcraft to high school chess, etc. Seeding is as much a part of tournaments as the elimination is. Picking people randomly is something I would do only as a very last resort - I don't think it's appropriate for a tournament that's been in the planning for months.

The way to get these things done on a limited amount of time is start the tournament early. Don't focus on gathering play for so long. People have been practicing and practicing for freakin months already - surely they're ready to compete. So, the tournament has been slated to start at 12 noon. Make sure it starts at 12 noon.

With the number of people going to TiT for VF, there's tons of time to run a proper round robin and a full double elimination tournament. There's too few people, imo, to justify a single elimination tournament.

** Edit ** Just something I wanted to add. When a tournament is too short, the element of stamina is removed. VF can become a game governed partially by mental stamina. A longer tournament supports those who can take the longer run. It shows consistency as well as mental toughness of one's game.

cheers,

 

Hotel Reservations (for us at least)

Ok I had to choose between the Wingate deal and the Townplace Suites, and I went with the latter.

Wingate has cheaper rates and ethernet connections and is closest to the tourney site, but the townplace suites are 10 times nicer, have apt-like layouts (aka a 2 bedroom apt in 1 room), dialup connections (we can still access AOL lol!), more space, and can actually comfortable support 6 people in one room (2 queen beds and sleeper sofa).

Anyways the details are all here: Townplace Suites Plano

The best deal they have (only 8 rooms left!) is 89 per night (x2 nights for us) but divided by 6 people thats dirt cheap. I'm headed out of town now, will be back friday evening. L8rz!

PS for those that still want the cheaper/closer hotel go check out hotels.com... the Wingate inn in Addison (closest to tourney) is listed at 55/night right now.

 

Re: Brackets, Team Battle, Hotels, etc

I say we take a vote in this forum from the people whos actually going to TiT. I dont know how we're gonna do it, if we do, votes from TiT people only plz!!

my vote still
Team Battle > Seeding

 

TiT

Exactly how many people are going? As far as time is concerned, time is pretty much unlimited considering the Tag tournament is gonna take twice as long as the VF tournament no matter whut time we start the VF tournament. Also, TV's would help a great load too.

 

Re: Hotel Reservations (for us at least)

Half the Socal group has the ressies for the Townplace. We should be there by 8ish on Friday night. Let us know if there might be a small meet on Friday night.

 

Re: Hotel Reservations (for us at least)

Do we got a room # yet? It would be nice to post up room numbers once everyone gets their hotel reservations - hint hint*