top 10 most useless moves.

"Actually, I did say d+K+G was useless for me as Hai d+K is essentially the same move but it causes knockdown where as d+K+G does not. Both come out about same speed and the damage difference is minor."

First order of busines...see the number pad 123456789. 4= back
6=forward 2=down 8=up. so instead of d+k+G say 2k+g. Thank you, this is easeir to read.

Second order of business, the fact that 2k+g does not knock down is a positive in my book. 2k+g, 8p+k+g, 2k+g is a wonderful double sweep combo (i believe it was given in the tutorial of VF4 evo.) On ch hit the second one will knock the opponent down, but on normal hit it wont, which allows for some other mixups. You should really try this, you'll find it works 90% of the time, its an absolute staple of my offense...until people start picking up on it.

33k+gk and mix ups: Its Lei's only long range low, so its effective for that reason alone. (i don't do it enough). Then the regular kick does a stagger that leads to other mix ups, and the p has a knock back effect and is great near a wall to cause wall stagger. the k+g is good b/c it is very tricky for people who don't know how to block it, AND it leaves you in backturned stance which sets you up for down kick, which is BY FAR lei's best and most powerful sweep, this thing is A BEAST.

3p+g, i never really do it intentionally, just when i miss 33p+g, but its still good, just be ready to follow up super quick with a small down attack and then block a rising or backdash the freak outta there.

 

I really don't care much for it being faster. The animation looks exactly the same with fast inputs and I mainly use that sweep in oki after opponents tech or sometimes after a stagger. In either case a couple frame difference doesn't really matter since it looks the same.
I'd much rather choose the knockdown.

 

Whaa~!? Are we playing the same game?

I agree with what smb_is_me said, the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is really good in my book and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is useful as well.

And I gotta admit, I'm a huuuuge fan of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, and I do it often intensionally. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

As for using 123456789 for the directions, I think that those:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
were added to this forum for a reason /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
I'm not forcing anyone to use them, but they look nice and are easy to read

 

I know the numbers, I just never liked typing them but I guess it's a growing trend. Maybe I'll switch to the command icons, those are easy to read too, right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Second order of business, the fact that 2k+g does not knock down is a positive in my book. 2k+g, 8p+k+g, 2k+g is a wonderful double sweep combo (i believe it was given in the tutorial of VF4 evo.) On ch hit the second one will knock the opponent down, but on normal hit it wont, which allows for some other mixups. You should really try this, you'll find it works 90% of the time, its an absolute staple of my offense...until people start picking up on it.
</div></div>
I actually used to do that. I guess the only reason I don't anymore is because of the KND sweep. That one is good though so I'll have to put it back to my arsenal for people who are eager to use fast attacks after getting hit with it. Good call.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
33k+gk and mix ups: Its Lei's only long range low, so its effective for that reason alone. (i don't do it enough). Then the regular kick does a stagger that leads to other mix ups, and the p has a knock back effect and is great near a wall to cause wall stagger. the k+g is good b/c it is very tricky for people who don't know how to block it, AND it leaves you in backturned stance which sets you up for down kick, which is BY FAR lei's best and most powerful sweep, this thing is A BEAST.
</div></div>
Lei's BT sweep really is sweet. Too bad it's so hard to set up BT with Lei.
One thing I just noticed when testing the range is the good amount of delay you can use between 33K+G,K kicks, might be worth something. As for the canned K and K+G follow-ups, they are worthless on anyone who know them. K+G gives opponent a free backthrow is they just crouchguard and you can rise to guard or even evade K on reaction.
I'm still a bit skeptical but I promise I'll try this stuff out more next weekend when I play.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
3p+g, i never really do it intentionally, just when i miss 33p+g, but its still good, just be ready to follow up super quick with a small down attack and then block a rising or backdash the freak outta there. </div></div>
Lol, that's how I use it too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif And I always go for the LDA since most people don't evade it.
Still, I don't use the throw intentionally and even with LDA hitting it's worse than df,df+P+G.

 

Nice going clipping out the part that made the quote make sense. If I use it on opponents tech or after stagger, it makes no difference whether there's a couple of frames of difference since they look identical. As such it's pretty mush impossible to react to one but not the other.

Also, in those situations whatever defensive strategy the opponent chooses from either one of them either hit or doesn't.

 

Sorry, I meant it as a joke, that's why I chose only that part of the whole text /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
I'm just happy that Lei Fei threads are so alive with ideas right now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

haha, griever, those arrows always take soooooo long to load on my screens. hell i'v usually done typed out my thoughts and clicked submit by the time a few of them have loaded. but the comment was funny /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

In translation 123456789 is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/n.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif
And /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is translated to 412369874_1_2_3_6_9_8_7pkg. You forgot the neutral (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/n.gif).

When I do play LE, I also use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to sart combos. A bit stuffed without it. As for useless moves, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif looks good, but it's all glossy and predictable, and leaves you BT. Not a huge fan of BokuTai /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif either.

 

allow me to shed a little more light on 33kg,k. The final k/kg is for noobs lol. So its great to win a round imo. Here is another strong feature of this move, the k on 33kg,k knocks the opponent down. (i don't think it has to be CH does it?). Also it has some tracking on it to help accomplish this. What u do is when u land the kg,k and the opponent goes down, give a split second or to delay and gaurd cancel to ur own "knock down state". Many opponents will attempt a wake up attack, but because u r in a knocked down status it cannot hit u. Simply time your own recover attack to start after theirs and tada, u just got a free recovery attack times 1.5 for counter hit. It makes 33 kg,k start to look a little more appealing. As for lei back turned sweep is very easy to set up. 1pkg, g cancel. 2k and the sweep is on. There are certain times where this is very very easy to set up, frustratingly impossible to gaurd, and brutally ruthless in winning round with almost zero risk involved. And the great thing about it is, an opponent does it to themselves so when they whine about lei fei being to strong you can just shrug and point out they could have avoided it with a little discipline. Now only if i had a little discipline myself--i hate getting caught by that move!!!

 

does anyone really use 6pk for anything other than a little flash. i know it goes from 6pk to pkg, but is this really ever close to optimal. I think vf#### will do this occasionally, like 2 or 3 times in a fight then put it back where it belongs...on the shelf. But it seems really weak compared to plans like pp g throw.

 

33K+GKK+G is actually useful against those who know the stance change in 33K+GK. And also when 33K+GK hits on counter (since even if you miss with K+G, you've got BT 8K for defence purposes).

 

Guys, its time to shape up a bit.
Explain once again why would you consider a linear, 26 frame low that puts you into -11 ON HIT (and on stance meaning you cant even block) and has basically the most braindead mixup in the game as followup as 'good'. If you cant block the string it's entirely your problem, it doesnt mean that the string is good.

Im trying to uphold a certain manner of quality here on forums, I admit it. And im being damn nice about it.

 

Allright, I'm about had enough of 3,3+K+G defending. It sucked balls in evo and it sure doesn't look better now. Let's see.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME POST OR INCITEMENT. These are facts:

<u>3,3+K+G</u>
Takes 26 frames to come out. That's about half a second and makes it one of the slowest low moves in the game. It doesn't help that unlike most lows of that speed it is completely linear. If you can't react to that with crouch guard when not doing anything preventing it, it's about time to change the game.

On block it's -16. IIRC recovers standing for a small combo. Elbows or serpent cannon or something anyway if done alone. And you shouldn't do it alone either. This thing is -15 on hit too by the way. cr.f on MC for ~50 damage.

The move does not go under high moves in the beginning of the animation (at least 16 frames, I tried it at +4 against 12f jab).

<u>3,3+K+G,K</u>
The second hit is special low, meaning you can guard it standing or crouching. You can delay it a bit to prevent opponents from destroying you for free on guard / hit of first attack, which is about the only saving grace there is. It is also fully linear, it doesn't have any tracking properties as you claim. You're probably referring to failed evade due to the delay. Or you're just hitting it MC's everytime somehow, since the cr.f only occurs on MC.
Not that you'd be hitting it any other way, since on normal hit it is not guaranteed after the first hit. On MC ~40 dmg from cr.f.

If you didn't get either hit on MC then from here you have to choose whether to continue with BS canned follow-ups or end in Suirakan with -22 on block or -11 on hit.

<u>Rest of the options</u>
3,3+K+G,K,K is BS, like you all have already said. At least it's safe on block but it's so slow that it doesn't act as mix-up and it's easy to evade on reaction -> Major punishment. As known, fully linear

3,3+K+G,K,K+G is BS. The first thing anyone should do after opponent has done 3,3+K+G,K is crouch block since this option is so much faster. It's L,H so the second hit whiffs on crouch guarding opponent meaning a free juggle / back throw / back crumple -> LBT combo for a world of hurt. Even if they rise to block it you're left in BT at -11 which isn't very spectacular.
While it doesn't look like it, it's also fully linear, although it doesn't matter very much.

3,3+K+G,K~Suirakan is BS. On block -22 and on hit -11 like already stated. Everyone has some move that can hit Lei out of Sui and since the fastest Sui move is 15 frames they have 37-26 frames (+- half a second again) to do their move without you being able to do anything about it. The follow-ups can't be delayed so it's very easy too. It doesn't help at all that some charas (like Akira, Sarah, Wolf) can hit Sui with their big launchers, so if you actually tried to do something your in for a major combo.

If you just stay in Sui thinking that it's the safest bet, you're right, but then again getting KD'd out of Sui doesn't allow you to tech so you'll receive some major damage that way too.


The only way this could be called "usable" is, as said before, if the first kick kills the opponent. There should be safer tools for that kind of job though.

Another way could be online play, since punishing in the best possible way is in my limited experience close to being impossible from time to time and people reacting to it doesn't help since small lag prevents them from guarding on reaction and relying more on prediction or guessing.

Which brings me to a question I already once asked: are you referring to online play?
The move is worse than it was in Evo and that's a lot said already. If you don't believe it, read the facts again (or tell your opponents to learn to guard it...) [/rant]

Peace.

 

idk, 33kg, k just seems to work. I'll buy that it gives diminishing returns against better opponents. But cozby, wasted wish, vf9535, linz, and myself all use it effectively and were all 9dan plus. Yeah, i use it online, but i don't really care if it works in quest mode, and no one around here to play. So when it quits working i'll quit using it. For example, if i'm playing manji and he destroys it, it gets put straight away. It does sound ugly on paper though.

 

Just as Social_ruin said. As long as it works, I'm gonna use it from time to time.
What, do you think when say I like and use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif), that means it's my main and most abused low move in the game? HELL NO!

Of course it's got terrible frames, of course it's gonna leave you with disadv. on hit (like MOST non-knockdown lows in the game), but play some matches, use it once per match only (not round, match) and tell me if you succeeded. Anyway, no one's saying it's the best, we're just saying we like to use it from time to time... against noobs... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Social_ruin asked a question I would like to know the answer to as well. How often if ever do you use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif? I myself prefer using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif over that. How about you ppl?

 

6p is devastating. I rarely ever do 6p+k, should prolly do it a little more. The only time I ever do it is on accident. But whenever i accidentally do it, it always seems to land, so go figure. Same goes for p+k. But again, 6p is one of lei's absolutely best moves, you can't argue the validitiy of the mix up game off of it, its just deadly, when i'm tip-top you'll probably see 6p (p+k+g) about 3-4 times a round.

 

Well, if it works then I guess it's not your problem.

I never use f+P+K. If the hitbox of the follow-up move wouldn't be so jacked up or if the ura nehan transition wasn't worse than after df,df+P I might use it.

I have the same strangeness going on with accidentally sometimes doing the move: it always seems to hit. Then I go for the follow-up and I die, lol.

I think the move is rather useless. It's just obsolete compared to other MP's Lei has.

EDIT: One more thing with 33K+G /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
I don't mind -frames on hit. I do mind when I get severely punished for all the options I can do by the opponent doing just one thing. And that's even on normal hit. If I don't hit the first on MC and the opponent knows this stuff then I die.
Anyway, carry on.

 

its not 33kg k im complaining about, its 33kg k *K*
the FINAL k, the one where he kips up... its slow and even my grandma has the reflexes to not get hit by it.

 

i use 6p because its half circular and to setup a good mixup game. i luv using 6p+k mid is good cuz it knock back opponent on ch to give u space, on stagger u can continue offense from ura nehan if they dont staggger recover if they do recover pp them or throw mixups.

 

That whole string can be blocked with crouch guard (why would it be 'hard to block' like someone said?) and you can net your free heavy launch punish or whatever to Lei's exposed back when the last high attack whiffs. Even if Lei doesnt do it you can propably hit him out of it quite easy. Nobody has ever tried the suirakan stunt on me. No matter what Lei does, as long as the first low kick doesnt hit as counter then he is just as punishable no matter what he does. If he does last K+G kip up kick you have ages to see it coming and evade for your free punishment also, because its so much slower than the low-high followup. You cant make this string look good on paper no matter what.

ps. I also never use Leis f+P+K. f+P is however useful.