PS3's Weak AI

Being concerned that the whole single player experience being wank is in fact a valid concern. Im sure there are many people in the same situation as myself-not having anyone to play. Its all very well spending money travelling to play someone for half a day but if I havent been able to have enjoyable practice against the AI, Im gonna be shit. therefore theres no point in travelling to play anyone. Saying 'fly your ass to Japan instead' is a non-sensical argument from start to finish. If I had people to play against near me then I wouldnt give a damn but for some people having no decent single player experience means little point in playing the game so accept that as a valid argument.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no reason for this, other than AM2 are a bunch of Lazy slobs. As several of us predicted, we've gotten a version for the markets outside of Japan WHICH IS WORSE, NOT BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS VERSIONS. This is what we get for being complacent consumers, myself included.</div></div>

WTF...

I'd love to see you take some leadership on how to fix things Bryan. Is there any point to these threads but to just bitch and complain?

 

i think you guys are just too good and quite frankly that frightens me.

 

the problem there is...How easy would it be to get your hands on the Lindbergh hardware and the game to go with it?

The problem with the Ai thing is that..Ai can never replace an actual human opponent. Sure you can take some dude and feed all his data into machine and then put it into the game but the problem is that it doesnt mean hes going to play that way all the time. Ai can never replace a human opponent.

Hence why some people are complaing about the lacking Ai..What can i say? you gotta play against friends i guess. Your too good for the computer on the Highest diff setting. not sure how you fix that other than playing vs friends and just fooling around vs the comp..

 

Hey..I don't really have anybody to play with either. But i'm more than happy to at least be able to play the game without having to jump on a plane to Japan or California(if its there)

If i have to play the game vs the comp then i will cause its still gonna be fun..I'm not a master of VF by any means but i still have alot of fun playing it vs the comp.

as i said in the above post...Maybe people are just too good and the comp will never give them a challenge..

also the "fly your ass to japan" line was maybe a bit too extreme, but i couldnt think of anything better since that whole post was just whining because the Comp was not "tech rolling" like he thought it should be ...So i suggested going to japan since he could get his fill of Techrolling and the Highest lvl of play, since i see no other option for him.

 

You have a serious decision then, not about VF but wether or not to spend $600+for a system. All I can tell you is.... I have played the game non-stop and I mean non-stop to the point where I have 2 slice/crack cuts on my index finger. Its over 700 matches with Jeffrey and still not completing everything in quest mode, sure some of its repetitive but I am not a VF master and I never played VF5. My memory of VF4 is very distant so I am finally getting back into the swing of things against the CPU and actually flowing with the game. That’s just 1 character, LOL, I don't know where I will get the time to do all 17 but its probably a must. Remember, I don't even like playing the CPU on anything, the quest is fun, money aint easy and the whole items thing is cool enough for me.

When the game comes out, play it at a store, like it, buy it.
Yeah the AI has flaws but its all of what you make of them. If you have a 360 then wait for the 360 version, it might even have these precious features everyone needs. In the mean time, I will be playing....

There is a feature called VF.TV in the game. You can upload your VS matches so anyone with the game can watch them. Not one person on this MB has uploaded "1" match but yet complain about the lack of a real VF.TV. If I lived in Japan the only thing about VF.TV I would care about was watching the VS. matches of the good players. If there was leaderboards what would it consist of? There is no on-line play because of obvious reasons, lag. You think complaining about AI is bad, wait until the lag complaining starts happening. Do you really think you are going to get the same experience at home playing vs online? I am sure it would be nice for the casual VF gamer but for the hardcore tpye it might not be anything. It would probably be filled with cheaters/plug pullers, sounds like fun, there go your leader boards....

 

I am going to agree 500% with Shang....there is no way anyone can possibly justify Sega downgrading nearly every solid aspect from VF4:Evo to VF5.

Quest Mode is downgraded severely due to the AI being worse. This makes the game not worth it for me (and pretty much everyone else), I am already convinced just from this thread to not waste my money and time getting a PS3/360 for VF5. I mean how many people here actually play real live competition more than they play the AI in Quest Mode?

Factor in that you can only have 30 characters, replay mode is downgraded, training mode was destroyed, and no online features....

I guess I'll see you guys for VF6 unless 5 Evolution is amazing, but considering Sega being complete lazy morons that's doubtful. But at least I don't need to get a PS3.

 

fixed

 

Althought from what I've read the game does seem to have a lot of replay value and I myself would probably not have easily beaten the game, there's no reason for Sega to go backwards on the game's capabilities. One of the biggest reasons why VFer love Virtua Fighter is that it's hard to master. So if you take that out then it's just another figthing game. I've grown up in the arcade era and was always impress by sega games, it's always ahead of the crowd. But Sega better listen up to people when they voice about games because there's plenty of good games to choose from these days. If user's want some kind of online capabilities, give them something. How about able to download trained AI to fight another user's trained AI, imagine the replay value in that...people will be spending hours training their customized character and AI, recording it and watching it. How about the ability to move customize character to a different machine. I don't know how many people cry out for that but Sega is still stubborn and do whatever the hell they want, which is dumb up the game a little to appeal to the masses. Sega should really try hard to retain the VF audience because what do they have left up their sleeve? Sonic?

 

Sega needs to make Shining Force 4. None of those Shining games they have today, but a true sequel.

 

Considering that the Shining Force team is now a Nintendo second party... good fucking luck.

 

? Depends, alot of people including my local scene wern't supposed to play FT, we got it anyways, buying arcade hardware is the same as buying any other product, so in answer, quite easy if you know how.
In this case (as I mentioned) it's not possible as it's not for sale.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem with the Ai thing is that..Ai can never replace an actual human opponent. Sure you can take some dude and feed all his data into machine and then put it into the game but the problem is that it doesnt mean hes going to play that way all the time. Ai can never replace a human opponent.</div></div>
I think the majority of people who say this know this only too well, thats just stating the obvious,
the fact of the matter is, Sega made a 1 player quest mode and the AI is weak, why? and why should people be happy with that?
I also mentioned the superior ai's in FT, your probably too new to vf to feel the shafting by sega yet.. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
I guess this thread makes people aware of the Ai's level and what to expect if nothing else... : /

 

Could you imagine them remaking and finishing Shenmue with the graphic and sound quality of VF5? =Q

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF...

I'd love to see you take some leadership on how to fix things Bryan. Is there any point to these threads but to just bitch and complain? </div></div>

You know Jeff, I think several people here have intelligently responded w/ disappointment, like I have, that the AI isn't as good as the AI they made, uh... 4 years ago? Like many people have said, there isn't ONE good reason for this. If you can come up with one good reason why they should have done this, I'll shut up. I dont' think anyone would have protested to waiting a little longer for the game if they took the time to make it better.

And what are you talking about here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any point to these threads but to just bitch and complain? </div></div>

which threads are these? You know, someone else recently tried to make me out to be some kind of complaining windbag that did nothing but bitch, and I've put my money where my big mouth is, proving that I DO care about this game. Outside of the mods, Noodals, and a handfull others like Supergolden, I'm one of the few people working to bring new info from the game/books the the forums.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/148746/page/1#Post148746

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/149539/page/1#Post149539

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/149050/page/1#Post149050

Are these threads just about bitching? If you can't be objective enough to look at the good WITH the bad in anything, you've been blinded by your love for it. Maybe what we need is a few more posts in the "VF on top again!!!!!" thread, (which is the biggest joke ever, even the title is a joke); wherein you and others try to figure out why those complaining bitches over at Arcadia Magazine have the audacity to "report" that VF5 isn't doing as well as other fighting games in Japan. They must be full of shit, those dirty sons of bitches!!!! Someone check those numbers again!

Zero-chan, I don't care who programmed it. The FACT is that they have good AI code ready to use, in the form of the VF4 AIs, and the new VF5 Knockout Trial AI, which Am2 themselves advertised.

While the weaker AI making Quest not as good of a training tool as it used to be is an issue, the larger issue here (which Optimus, Shang and others seem to get) is that what Sega's giving fans outside Japan is getting worse and worse. How can I practice OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif vs. Tech Rolls with a cpu that doesn't TR? Someone could easily build bad habits by playing this AI. Remember no FT for ANY market in ANY form outside Japan, no Arcade VF5, now we get a rushed home version. The next logical step is no Console version at all. It's selling poorly in Japan, getting some HONEST reviews, (like the one in Game Informer which basically says that while fans will love it, no one else has been given any reason to buy it over Evo), and hasn't built the kind of steam that VF4's PS2 release got before release. Ever wondered WHY??? Must be those bastards over at Arcadia, poo-pooing all our fun again!

And this is basically the flagship game for Sega on PS3! That's what's so surprising, combined with the fact that to have made it really outstanding seems like it would've been easy. For Christ's sake Jeff, even the JOYSTICKS are broken! Do you see HRAPs and Fighting Sticks being recalled? Sound like a rush job at all?

As consumers, we should organize and relay our complaints to people who have an audience with Am2 (like 1up seems to, don't we know some people over there? I seem to remember seeing some people from VFDC in some kind of video at the 1up office...). For my part, when I talked about this issue with my contact at SOA, he said he didn't think anyone at SOA has a good enough relationship with Am2 to get them to listen. I say call them out in the media, embarass them. Magazines etc need to stop sucking VF's dick because it's "hardcore" to do so. The consumers (as I said, myself included) need to quit shelling out $$$ because we're so desperate that we'll buy a $650 console, some Elecoms that Am2 basically nerfed to sell their own (broken) sticks, MORE Hori sticks while we're sitting on mountains of them, and the game for $80. All that and I get a version that's much LAMER than last time, and I'm not supposed to complain?

Some of the hardcore VF fans need to quit sucking VF's dick as well, because doing so makes you a moron.

 

Do people really buy VF and post actively on this forum just for the single player experience?? That just blows my mind. So the AI is worse in VF5 than in Evo (I don't know yet as I haven't progressed far enough) -- does that even really matter? If you're not going to buy VF5 just because of the AI...let's be straight, unless you're living in Japan or in a VF hotspot, you're a shitty player.

Let's focus on the bottom line. So VF5 AI isn't as the best. What're you going to do? Complain? Send a petition? Vote with your dollars and not buy the game? Do you really think low console sales would cause Sega to upgrade the next release? Think again. Low current sales will lead to lower future investment, not higher future investment. Why do you think Sega doesn't invest more in communities outside of the U.S.? The answer is pretty clear. VF just isn't valued as much.

If you really want to improve VF5 and future VFs, there IS something you can do. Go out and recruit players; show them this site; teach them how to play; get regular games going; build a community. Building interest from a grass roots level will translate to better sales for Sega. Only then will we see more future investment in the franchise.

So don't bitch, don't complain, because it won't do shit for VF. Go out and do your thing -- get more players.

 

Ice-9:
Actually, yeah, I'm a single player (actively trying to get some people together, but solo non-the-less) reading just about any and everything that pops up on VFDC... People need to start somewhere and if you're even mildly interested in VF in any way you end up here in no time flat. If solo-players didn't exist any kind of VF-scene would've died entirely in the West by now I'd think. No offence (which I assume is mutual), but the multiple question marks there just bite.

EmpNova:
To which I have to add that the amount of players not primarily interested in Quest mode on this site is a hefty percentage, and definately encompasses most of the regular posters.

As for the topic:
Its a sad development yes, and as I've been torn between the X360 and PS3 versions for the longest time makes me want to wait a bit. Unless my hails for VF players in the area meet success in the coming month when the PS3 and VF5 land here of course, as then I'll be getting a PS3 to compete for sure. (Here's to my intensely crossed fingers.)

 

I think quest mode AI on hard is more than enough for new players.

Also Bryan, the dojo mode AI DOES techroll if that's what you're talking about.... so does the AI players in quest mode here and there.

I do agree though that the AI is insufficient for veteran players, but isn't it possible that maybe you guys feel the AI is not sufficient due to your growths as a VF player? I mean, if you go back to play the original VF4 ver C now, maybe you would feel the AI is not good either.

In any case, quest mode AI is a good gauge for new players to see where they are at. Once you have no problem beating the AI on hard mode, while it doesn't mean you are good by any means, but it signifies that you have reached a point where you can start trying to play against real live opponents and know what is going on.

At least that's what I think.

 

People who say the "A.I." is not important is bugging. Is very important to this game or any other. The first thing that fans of FPS games point out if the A.I. is any good. You think FPS players would play Half-Life 2 all the way through if the A.I. sucks? Maybe, but you would see a lot of complaining for a game that took almost 5 years(I belive) to comeout.

The Quest mode in EVO, show me how to improve my skills with wolf, and see combo setup's with other charathers I tought couldn't been done, same goes for Wolf.

Play with friends? I think I speak for a lot of people here...WE HAVE JOBS AND GIRLFRIENDS! Let's be real here, I see my peoples like once a week, and the time we do chill, is like once a month(3 times if were lucky).

So, I'll be doing most of my gaming"DOELOW". Is like most of ya are saying your going to be playing this game with your friends everyday. I doubt that.

People who think the A.I. is not important didn't play the Quest mode in EVO, plain and simple, because if you did, you would be bitching like everyone else in here about the A.I.

 

Hi Ice-9. You say "Go out and recruit players". If only it was that easy, I have been trying to get someone to play in the 2 towns I have lived in the past 3 years. So far the grand total is 0. Thats just the way it is with vf. Even if I did manage to get 5 people to play the game, thats going to give Sega/AM2 an extra few quid. Thats not going to make the slightest difference to a billion dollar company. What will make a difference to future investments to the franchise is if they had made a quality product this time round that many people could apreciate and enjoy. I agree with what Akiralove is saying but maybe instead of telling the team that did the ps3 version, we should voice our opinions to the team involved with the 360 version. Maybe they would see it as an opening to make the VFers cross over to the 360, if the version was dealt with properly.

 

Hmmmm, no; but true. How about giving the people a update for the ones that already bought the PS 3 version, how about that?