Poll posted on SEGA messageboards

Im not sure if that even woks because I have played matches where the latency-icons were inconsistent with lag.. At least for most part. Grey icon with decent latency and green icon with bad lag..

 

well, the catch there is that it's 1: for peer to peer, it could be done for client to server, but then a lot of servers are needed per country. 2: only useful when players are within a 2-3 hour travel radius.

Though everytime I come online in GGXX#R, there's like 50-100 japanese playing there with the delay set to 2.

 

LA Akira says the system works fine for him, guess he is the only one.

As far as lag goes, why is it that FPS on the PC run without a problem and they are frame based also. You have 10+ people running around blasting each other and no lag?

 

Im not the only one. Yes, things can be better but would you rather go back to having vf offline only? Not me.

 

i only dislike one thing about vf online and that is not able to filter who you play on a global level.

I dont want asian or eurpoean opponents. At least put a flag next to there gamertag so I can tell who is who

 

DOA4 has that. No idea why they didn't do it in VF5.

 

I agree with this, however its not the only thing I want improved.

a.) region filters like above. EXTREMELY important!
b.) ability to change character in player match without creating a new player match
c.) Disconnecting after match has started (both have agreed to match) should count as a loss
d.) Player location should be ALWAYS visible in gamertag info, preferably instead the country flag next to their name so you wouldnt have to check their personal info even.
e.) revamping the online battle point ranking table, battle points dont mean much since you get the same amount of points from beating 100 noobs than 100 expert players. Create another online player ranking table based on the players online VF rank (kyu->dan->named ranks). Can create a ranking table based on win% or amount of matches played also.
f.) Fix up online code, sometimes it is impossible to join a match with a certain player for unknown reason. Im talking about a private player match so its impossible for that person to have joined some other match. I have tried to coordinate creating a player match with a friend via irc and still joining the match fails and fails and fails like 20 times in a row. All other VFonline works ok. And we are both within same country or otherwise geographically close. So the problem must be in the code.
g.) Ability to somehow save replays from vfonline
h.) possibility to watch an ongoing player match from the same room would be nice, not in ranked match to avoid lag.
i.) of course all work to further reduce lag is appreciated.

My XBL timecard is expiring at the end of january. I am having thoughts about buying a new one unless something is being done to the region filter issue. Or at least word from Sega that its being looked at.

 

FPSes for one run at 20 fps serverside by default, some instances they run 30 and really rare instances they run 50 and above. So in the default case 1000/20 = 50ms of lag pretty much means lagless in there, below 100ms you get 1 frame of lag and below 150ms you get 2.

Now of course one comes to wonder: "Why doesn't it stutter like hell then?", clients run as fast as they desire with exception of quake3 which has a bug where it starts to use more bandwith per extra frame it gets per second(so mods cap that at 125). For sole purpose of explanation we take 120fps, so that means 6*20 and that means we got 6 client frames per server frame. Now the fun part, not counting the delay on server info reaching the client, the client has 5 frames where it has no info at all, here the client start predicting what will happen (remember: there's no hitconfirms, fpss are much slower and that includes the two fastest games known to me at the moment qw and cpma). A simple algorithm is to extrapolate using the last few frames of info for opponents, and let the player just do it's thing.

The client sends the player info back, often enough at it's own framerate, because its UDP packets can get lost or the server might not yet have reached the next frame, so the next frame the server always has the latest info of the client. The server uses this info to apply the necessary forces to the player and sends this back.

During this time, the client again hasn't got a clue on what should be happening, so its again predicting what would be happening, then it gets its info from the server, sets it's own player coordinates to the server received coordinates, reapplies player forces and renders the first out of 6 frames.

Especially with current prediction technologies available these systems are far more robust then most other games except for strategy games(where the players get a fixed lag which gives them enough time and they keep sending over eachother's commands and let the matching unit AIs do the work).

Now fighting game, the biggest problem: no actual server and a huge problem of losing sync. So I'll present you with the three armies problem:

Say there's 2 allied armies, each on another side of the flank with a big opposing army in the middle. The 2 allied armies can only win if they attack the opposing army at the same time. So to do this they have to sync their attacks, and they don't have the nice and dandy equipment that we have today. So they have to send a messenger to sync up an attack, that messenger can be caught by the opposing army and thus killed off. So, say one commander sends his messenger to the other to attack at a certain time and the messenger makes it through safely, would the attack ever happen?

No, it will not, the first commander doesn't know whether the messenger has reached the other commander and thus will not move. The second commander who also has his share of experience knows the first will not move without confirmation. Now, the messenger could be send back but then there's still no knowing whether the first commander received the confirmation so in theory they'd end up with one really tired messenger.

Now, the common fix for online is to send the packet and already prepare what for what you're going to do till it's acknowledging packet actually comes back. If you receive no acknowledging packet, you send again and keep going till you receive one. The other side would receive such a packet, will do as told and send an acknowledgment back and assumes that it reaches the other side. This is standard in the TCP protocol.

Now, for UDP there's no such thing as acknowledging, so things have to be done manually, remember that in peer2peer both clients have to agree on a situation, so they have to send back and forth what they expect is right. With the server, only the server has to agree with itself and clients have to sync up. Servers however, especially due to the scarcity of fighting game servers are known to induce a fair bit of lag and are useless when players have only 8ms to eachother.

So, the clients have to agree and have to do so long before they allow the event to occur, with a 80ms connection it's possible to do that in 4 frames of lag(like stated earlier), this also applies to strategy games, but strategy game gameplay is more robust against lag and are again, usually much slower. So the fightinggames like the strategy games sends players' commands back and forth and both sides have to fill in the blanks, to prevent desync they also send their own gamestate, if they disagree on the gamestate, both sides have to go back to where they last agreed, so you'll see some nice stutters as a player.

Now, what I don't understand about VF5 online is that considering there's lots of frames in player animation, especially startups, why the delayed frames aren't simply removed from the startup of a move from the opponent and that the client simply follows offline patterns(until disagreement). The animation would look a bit jerky and the players have to react faster to a certain move(which they'd have to online anyways), but it's not like Guilty Gear where a 3 frame move would be skipped in as a whole.

 

OH MY GOD Sega has fixed some of the issues already! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

?

 

Its true. They released a new patch for VF5.

VF5 Update Available

Subtle Changes Improves the Perfect Fighting Game

LONDON (16th January, 2008) - SEGA Europe Ltd. today announced it has released a new downloadable patch for Virtua Fighterâ„¢ 5, the critically acclaimed arcade fighting game now available for the Xbox 360â„¢ video game and entertainment system from Microsoft. The patch will include a number of gameplay additions and enhancements including:

* Some characters will now be able to select costume-specific pants in alternate costumes, for example equipping Costume A pants in Costume B.
* Replays of online battles can now be saved.
* One additional item per character (appear as "Downloaded item" in Costume settings/Item edit dialog).
* Gamer pictures will now be shown in online battles.
* After winning the World Tournament Final, it's now more likely that rivals you have not defeated will be playing in arcades.
* When someone joins an online match, you can now see their connection quality.
* Various fixes for minor bugs, including a texture bug.
* Easier sorting of rankings.
* Rematches in Online VS. Player Matches now possible even when the players haven't added their opponent to their friend list

 

Syzygy could you possibly persuade SEGA to release VSHG for the 360?

Seriously, the lack of quality sticks is the main thing stopping me from playing VF5 like crazy /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/20080116_vf5_faq.x


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Virtua Figher 5 FAQ

Read the associated news post: Sega Patches Virtua Fighter 5 X360, Explains On-disc DLC; PS3 Online Patch Not Possible
Will SEGA be making any changes to Virtua Fighter 5 Xbox 360?

In the January 2008 Title Update, we added many of the features that we hoped to have in the original release. There are no plans for further updates at this time.

Will online play be added for the PS3 release?

As the PS3 release was a launch title, the specifications for online title updates were not yet finalized and we were unable to include it in the title. Unfortunately, that means that releasing an online update enabling online VS play is not possible.

Why are there no penalties for people who pull their cable in Ranked Matches to disconnect and prevent a loss in the Xbox 360 release?

There is in fact a significant penalty for those who disconnect during a Ranked Match. If you disconnect, experience points you're saved to reach the next level of online play rank (1st dan, Gladiator, etc.) are significantly reduced.

Moreover, leaderboard rankings are based on total points. This includes a point for a loss. So those disconnecting are ultimately harming their standing on the leaderboards.

Why did SEGA release DLC on the Xbox 360 game disc?

Dozens of new items were added to the Xbox 360 release, and only a handful of them require a download. The downloadable items would not have been included in the game if they were not selected to be downloadable, and including them on the disc was the only possible delivery mechanism that could be implemented within the development schedule.

If they were not included on the disc, an online distribution item distribution method would have to be created to allow players who didn't download the items to view the items on their opponents who had them equipped.

SEGA's goal with the downloadable content was to measure the level of interest in downloadable content, so that we could take it into account for future products.

Is SEGA planning to release some of the cool Japanese version C outfits as DLC for Virtua Fighter 5 for Xbox 360?

The DLC is complete as of Item Pack 3. There are no further plans for DLC at this time.



SEGA's goal was to concentrate on the core gameplay and make the best, lowest latency, online gameplay possible. Spectator mode and other additional online features can add to latency in online play.

Why is feature "X" not in the game? (For example, why is there no record / playback feature in the DOJO mode?)

We always have to balance the possible feature set versus the title's schedule and development resources. Sometimes decisions on what to cut and what to leave in are difficult and painful. We are always listening to our user base, and all feedback will be taken into account for future titles.

Read the associated news post: Sega Patches Virtua Fighter 5 X360, Explains On-disc DLC; PS3 Online Update Not Possible</div></div>

I seriously hope VF5 for the 360 isn't considered "complete" now.Hopefully this is just interview fodder they like to throw out.Remember when they stated in multiple interviews ONLINE PLAY FOR VF5 IS COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE END OF STORY!

 

The update is some seriously great stuff. Thanks, Syzygy!

 

I really hope this isn't the end of the item DLC because there are still a couple items that I really want, like Kage twin swords and gas mask, or Lion's mantis head. However, If sega actually did shoot their entire wad with the first round of content, then I suppose that would explain why the last two item packs have just been hair color and light plates.

 

Just noticed this topic, so I might as well post a little constructive criticism.

Things that should be added in VF5 Online:

<ul>[*]The ability to reject people in Player / Ranked Matches. Would come in handy when you know you'll have a laggy match with someone.[*]The possibility to have rematches in Ranked Games, which should be done like in Street Fighter: Anniversary Collection. This means that both players would have to choose "Yes / No" after a match is finished.[*]A flag to show where any given player is from, both in the lobby and when you're looking for available games. See: Dead or Alive 4.[*]I'd like to see Item Fights online as well, but perhaps only in Ranked Matches so it can't be abused. Would be nice if new items could be earned like this instead of (overpriced) DLC packs.[*]Emblems are also missing for no apparant reason. They are visible in the arcade version, so this should also be the case online in my opinion. Furthermore: it would be neat if you can "win" emblems like in the Quest Mode.[*]I'd also like it if Personal Messages at the loading screens were visible during online matches. I'm aware that the developers might've removed these to avoid offensive text message, but still...[*]For that matter: there are absolutely no profile statistics whatsoever in Player Matches. Can you bring in the stats of the Ranked Matches, just for show?[*]The map selection in Ranked Matches should be set to Random by default. The host should be able to have some freedom in that regard with Player Matches however. It would also be nice if you could chose specific stages in Player Matches as well, even though the developers probably disabled this to reduce the load times.[*]I assume it won't be possible to make replays downloadable from the official website, like the arcade version? If so, it would be nice if this feature was included in Virtua Fighter 5 EVO or Virtua Fighter 6 instead, if they're going to create this any time soon.[*]It should be possible to change costumes in the pre-game lobby instead of going to a seperate menu. Changing your character in Player Matches should also be less cumbersome.[*]A refresh button for the search engine, instead of pressing B, A, A.[*]Leaderboards for online battles? I don't think these exist, so this would be a welcome addition. Especially if there are several filters for the rankings (per country, most wins per character, and so forth).[/list]Other than that, I completely agree with everything that C1REX said on page 2 .

This has nothing to do with Virtua Fighter 5 per se. If you can't join certain people in a private match or vice versa, then something is wrong with either your or his NAT settings. Go to the purple slide of the dashboard and activate the network test: for optimal conditions, your NAT needs to be Open. Even if it's Moderate (the second best setting), you can still encounter problems like the one you mentioned in your post. This can happen in every game, mind you, and not just beat 'em ups.

 

I wasn't able to reply to this thread earlier because we were working on the Title Update. I also hope you guys recognize a lot of the questions in the FAQ. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Leaderboards for online battles are in. As per the FAQ, you get 3 points per win and 1 per loss (which are also displayed at the end of a ranked match).

 

Syzgy, is it true that SEGA is completely done with the 360 version and there will be no more updates? Costume-wise or game mechanic wise?

It would seem easy enough to every once in a while release a full patch for the game that simply included the model data for all of the new costumes they wanted to have. Then you could just charge us for the keys to unlock the data. Is this viable? A lot of us would pay for some really good Ver. C arcade stuff.

 

Syzygy, there will be absolutely no more updates for VF5 as mentioned in the shacknews article? I hope that Sega will reconsider; there's so much more that they can do with the game, especially with the Xbox 360 version (which seems to be more flexible in terms of patching, compared to the PS3 version).

Personally, I'm not really so interested in more in-game items; I'm more interested in seeing a few more fixes, such as the ability to change characters quickly after a private online match. When I'm playing against a friend online, sometimes we'd like to change characters. Currently, however, it takes a bit of effort to go back to the character select screen, start a match session, then re-invite your friend to the match. It would be better if players could somehow choose characters from the 'Fight Again' menu.

Nonetheless, SEGA did provide a great update for the game. The ability to save replays from online matches is really the best feature. It's great for learning more about your own fighting techniques and that of other players. Thanks for listening to our feedback. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif