How can i improve beyond defender?

Social Ruin! Are you back or what?? Hey man, get the game, hit me up on XBL and I'll help you catch up on all the new madness.
FS is TOTALLY different than vanilla, to the point where you might be mad that you put so much time and effort into vanilla, lol.
Anyway man, new game, new stuff to learn, tell Wasted Wish to get it too, it's faster and crazier than vanilla and it will suit both your playstyles very nicely.

On topic: Superspacehero, there are players here who have been playing VF since part 1 came out well over a decade ago and they're still learning. You never stop learning with VF and that's what your focus should be, to learn as much as you can, practice it and apply it.
Your W/L ratio can become a distraction if you're only concerned with winning. If that's all you care about, try different characters that may suit your style of play better and you may net more W's due to other chars strong(er) mixup games combined with your style of play.
BUT if you're concerned with becoming a better player, stick with the character you like the most, learn him in and out and then start to learn other character's data.

Disclaimer: I'm bad at this game, I just know what it takes to get better from what all of the pros say and do.

 

As Tony said, there are people who've been playing VF since part 1. So, you might be sitting on Defender at 5000 points, and you go "What the heck, there's this guy who's Sentinel at only 800 points, he must be some genius."

No.

That guy might be someone who's played hundreds of hours offline. That guy might have spent 2 hours a day in Dojo. That guy might just be using the same old VF2 tactics he's been using for the past 10 years.

As an example, I haven't seriously played Jacky since VF3, but I tried him out, doing my same old elbow spam/throw tactics and managed to clobber quite a few people with my ancient secret technique.... which new players can actually learn pretty easily.

If you're talking reaction time and reflex, then yeah, there's a bit of biology there. To be perfectly blunt though, at our level, it doesn't make a big difference. I might make another thread about that though...

 

I had 950 bp at assassin.. Im not the best I happen to win my fights by putting opponents in positions that you have to have exp to get out of...but battling within your rank and class raises you faster..

 

damn u sds, i was goin 4 drama. i think it didn't work cause u killed me so many times

 

1000 days later, the limp hasn't gone away. MY BAD. Cozby must die!

 

On one side, you are completely correct. He actually IS bad player.

On other hand, it is not true. If you will not know him and if you will meet him on some tourney for 2 or 3 matches only, you will easily fall under impression he actually is pretty great player. It happend many times in the past already, to many players. Some better that others.
His style is stupid; but strictly tournament-wise, it is somehow effective. And that is why he keeps with what he is doing.
I convice him few years ago to actually start using reall mixups and so for some time. He was pretty decent. But he do not consider it effective. He rather stick with his way of playing - strictly using the most effective solution for every given situation.

Yes, it may sound crazy and stupid. It probably does. But it is just extreme example of what MOST players are doing: Considering some parts of the game more important that some others. Concentrationg on some parts of the game on behalf of the others. Or simply considering some parts of the game to be weak and useless enough to be ignored.

 

@Superspacehero

i played you a few times, good Jacky. I think a well balanced game like VF5 rewards good timing, but also knowing every move in your specialist character's moveset, and making full use of each move combined with good timing (and not loosing matches of course) is key to success.

 

The question shouldn't be how should I improve beyond the defender rank it should be how should I improve as an overall player. If you are fundamentally sound in all things like the metagame, execution, combos, defense, etc you are guaranteed to have a high rank in any FG period regardless of the title online or offline. That is my stance on the topic anyway.

 

To all VFers concerned about ranking up. A very valid approach to ranking up, is to simply get comfortable with losing. So many playesr are worrying about losing the match that they play in hurry, they try to get all their moves out at one time, they tense up (and stop thinking) or they freeze up in the 3rd round especially if its 2 to 2. Players are so afraid to lose that they fall back on reflexive play, instead of what they've learned in the dojo.

Their nerves,anxiety, and fear of losing the match cause them to fall back on autopilot, or old habits, and spams that have helped them in the past. Its like they forget all the new moves, the new concepts they've practiced in the dojo and go back to the same old Hunter level playing.

Once you're comfortable with losing, You can relax more during the match. Its a game, relax, chill, enjoy the 3 rounds, take the time out to look at your opponent's customization When you are relaxed your, memory will work better. You will slow down, adapt more to what other player is doing, instead of playing like you're the only one in the ring. Don't rush it.

If in the first round, you see that you are truly totally out matched. My advice: DONT EVEN TRY TO WIN! Use that opportunity to EXPERIMENT with new techniques that you've picked up from the dojo. Or use the next couple of rounds just to practice the basics, pretend you're in a tutorial and try to pull off defenses, or license challenges during the match, or take the next few rounds to really see what it is you're opponent is Whoopin your ass with. If you really really are out matched, kiss the match good-bye and decide that you're going to practice new shit during the next couple of rounds. So what you you lost, so fkn what, the important thing is what did you learn in the process of losing.

Alot of players won't admit it, but it is a fact, the best players have played and lost so many matches, until they no longer fear losing (and most don't care about winning either). Its about having fun. So they're not afraid to EXPERIMENT during RANKED matches. Instead of going in trying to pull of the same set of combos that usually win you the match, and then find yourself dumbfounded when your opponent has an answer for your combos, PLAY EVERY MATCH LIKE IT IS AN EXHIBITION MATCH, where winning is not important, but trying out new things, new approaches, practicing the fundamentals is your goal. Highly recommend that you EXPERIMENT during RANKED matches. (even if you lose because you're experimenting)

In time you'll automatically rank up. You will have lost the rank match jitters, your game play will be as good as your dojo time says it should be.

I do enjoy losing, because it allows me to understand myself better and my opponent. Its amazing to watch players who think they have you wounded, how the psychology of their game changes. I find it fascinating. Or ppl who have a few tests that they apply and if you fail them, they categorize you and proceed to try beat you on that basis. If they see you drop a combo, or not do a DM or OM when they think you should have, oh how they jump to conclusions! It very fascinating to watch

The more you lose ultimately the better fighter you will be.

Beware of high ranks though, the higher your rank, the less ppl who will want to play you, the lonlier you will be, the less fun you will have, the more ppl will cancel out of your matches. You'll be reduced to playing the same high level players all the time (if that's what you want good). I'm just sayin. I actually played the biggest diversity of players at 10th DAN, I almost wish I could go back to that rank.

I was asked yesterday why am I still a Defender. I told the other player when I was a KYU, I picked the defender rank, because I see myself as a Defender of the Faith(the last monk). Now in retrospect, I wish I had stayed at 10th Dan,(10th Dan's have more fun!), and Defender has other connotations and because now the only other rank that really appeals to me is Tiger Claw and we'll all be on the PS5 and Xbox 1440 b4 I get there.

 

+1 for PO.

 

Dunno where this quote comes from but i'm gonna post it here.

"Show me someone that doesn't mind losing, and i'll show you a loser."

That's my thoughts on the "don't let losing bother you" theme here. You have to want that win to be able to win. You don't have to outright rage over the fact that you lost, but it should definitely bother you on some level. Winners don't want to lose.

 

While losing is an inevitable occasional consequence of competing, it should never be manifested as some sort of goal. Play every game to win.

When you lose you should think to yourself "Why did I lose? How could I have won?".

Unless of course, your goal isn't to be good.

 

The question is: How can i improve beyond defender?

I gave spacehero part of the secret of being the ultimate winner.

Get rid of your fear of losing, get rid of the anxiety that comes with losing, remove it as a threat, and your mind will be freed so that you'll play your best. Is this not Zen? This is
a champions philosophy.

Maybe if I put it in laymen's terms.. LOL did you all see the latest Batman? When Batman was stuck in the underground prison? By leaving the rope behind, he was ostensibly demonstrating that he had no fear of dying, therefore he prevailed. (I'm saying the same thing)

Let me rephrase it for ppl who don't always appreciate nuance.

Many players lose simply because of fear of losing. Its a pscyhological thing. Their fear of losing causes them to tense up, not see options in the match that they otherwise would see, The fear of losing, causes them not to take chances with new moves learned in the Dojo, but to instead fall back on old bad habits, the fear of losing causes them to go on offense when the should be doing defense, or causes them to be cautious when they should be in attack mode.

I talk about the many thousands and thousands of games I've lost, but my winning percentage is still over 83%. I typically don't talk about my wins, but don't get me wrong, typically when I want to win, I do. Discovering another person's weakness is easy, fixing your own is where the challenge comes in. Is this not Zen? Is this not the philsophy of a true champion?

My advice to anyone, who truly wants to rank up, and become a master at the game, is to get rid of your fear of losing, get comfortable with loss

Make no difference between the Dojo and Rank mode. Experiment in Rank mode, take some of the license challenges from single player and try them in rank mode, if you lose, you lose, so what. Did you learn anything? Are you getting better with you character? Are you having fun pulling off moves and combos that you thought you never could?

When you no longer feel the difference between, dojo mode, arcade mode, rank mode, player room matches, and they're all the same to you,then you are ready to win and to win consistently and to win overwhelmingly. Then you will rank up, and you will keep whatever rank you choose.


@Johoseph: Show me someone that truly doesn't mind losing and I'll show you a player that has the potential to be a master player..

"Wanting to win is not enough to make you win" The PSN ranks are full of ppl who want to win. Not wanting to lose , also does not make you a winner. The PSN ranks are full of ppl who don't want to lose. Knowing frames, advantages, combo strings, and the fundamental mechanics is not enough to get you out of Defender ranks. Defender ranks are full of ppl who know their frames, know their fundamental mechanics, have plenty of nice combos. Yet they don't win.

Those that truly take my advice, will see their game improve exponentially, they will rank up, and stay ranked up, they will become among the best players in the world. They will reach a level of satisfaction with the game that they had not thought possible.

I'll give it to you again in slo-motion in case you guys didn't get it the first time. Get comfortable with losing[/size]. Get rid of your fear of loss. Learn to experiment when you're in rank mode without fear of losing the round or the match. Don't wait until you have mastered some move in dojo mode to try it out in rank mode. TRY IT!, if it doesn't work TRY IT AGAIN! and AGAIN! AND AGAIN! until you see how it to make it work. If you learn some new concept in the tutorial, DON'T wait until you've mastered it to try it in RANK Mode. TRY IT! Not only do I suggest that you EXPERIMENT in RANK Mode, I'm suggesting that you PRACTICE NEW CONCEPTS in RANK Mode, and if you lose, you lose. So what! To take the concept further:

It doesn't matter what mode, you're playing in. You should:

EXPERIMENT!, EXPERIMENT!, EXPERIMENT!
PRACTICE NEW CONCEPTS
PRACTICE NEW moves learned
Try to learn something new from your opponent.

don't fear, or even worry about losing.

If you get yourself psychologically to the place where DOJO mode, Rank Mode, and Arcade Mode all feel the same to you, I'm
guaranteeing you, you will be badass.

It also takes a lot of steam out of your opponent's trash talk when they find out, that you were using them for a practice session When they find out, that the only real reason they won the match, is because you weren't focusing on winning the match, your attention was on achieving other goals.

I meet a lot of players who after beating me one or two times in ranked, and then I absolutely dominate them maybe the third or fourth time, who will message me and say, damn lastmonk you're game has improved a lot since we last played. Only for me to answer them by saying, when ever I play you, I'm practicing something. Whether you lose or win depends on what I'm practicing

 

WHO!??????????????

 

hmmm, on VF5FS I have about 1300 or 1400 wins, do you want me to list all of them? LOL, Or are you insinuating because I haven't played you yet it doesn't matter

Auvii, think about it... there are about 13,800 registered users on VFDC, PSN is showing about 80,000 players in ranked mode. You don't think I got my cut.... LOL. There are some FN awesome players on PSN that have absolutely no idea what VFDC even is, or who any of the VFDC bigshots are. LOL.

Whaddaya meanz WHO!?????????? or do u really just want to point out not U

BTW., Auvii we'll eventually meet up, and I guarantee you that I'll be practicing something on that day, and whether you win or lose, will depend on what I'm practicing at the time I almost never play simply to win. I usually play to learn or to just have fun, or to see what tricks my opponent has that he thinks are new. We can all be beat my friend, most of us can be beat by ppl that have lesser skillz than we do, everyone has an off day, or gets caught by surprise by some new cheap spam, or drops a combo that we never usually drop,
it can happen to any of us.

On any given day the WHO!?????????? could be YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL, its all good, I hope we all realize we're one big community who share enjoyment of one of the best, if not the best fighting games ever made. And it looks like the PSN numbers are still growing (they've slowed a little) but they're still growing, that means we're gonna have somebody to play no matter what day or time it is. Which is a good thing.

 

I was wondering when Po was going to chime in about losses. In this case I actually very much agree with his sentiment about not fearing losses too much. You need some fear to stay hungry for the win, but it can freeze you if it consumes you.

Also really having a helpful set of sparring partners who are willing to tell you what you're doing that's getting you killed. I know I picked up a few bad habits l8ly and had some helpful friends point out to me "dude you keep doing x or y after this" and it helps a lot. I often forget the instant nature of ducking high attacks, and is something I need to just stay aware of.

Sure I would have figured it out in a while on my own, but having someone just say to me what it is makes the process faster.

 

Masterpo: I totally agree with what you are saying. I also like the part about implementing philosophical ideas such as not being afraid of losing. It's is very logical,since you will try new stuff and you wont be improving if you are doing what you always been doing.

So ive actually started following this advice. Playing online also become much more fun since your game is more varied.

A more varied game will in turn make your game more varied.


But its good that everyone is not doing this,because everyone would just be practicing in online mode

Ive read all posts in this thread, and a majority of posts have been very interesting.

However,im not a person that start discussions.I'm more a person who asks questions,or elaborate on what is already said.

 

Being more varied will make you more unpredictable

 

You started this whole discussion of 4 pages man. I beg to disagree that you're not a person who starts discussions.

 

I asked a question and a question gets an answer I got a lot of answers though ^^