Historic Rivalry: Bunbun-maru vs Daimon Lau

If you're going to let tiers influence you past a certain point, then the only way to win is to not play.

 

I personally believe being good at a game also includes knowing what characters are stronger than others. Thusly you can be the best Lau player, but if the best Virtua Fighter player can beat you. (whether counter picking or not) he in fact is better at Virtua Fighter.

I never did get this character loyalty honor stuff. Just pick what polygons get you the win if you're playing in a tournament. Sometimes someones better at fighting your best character out of familiarity or a matchup. If you know this and you're very competent at another character/know they are weak against that character. You are simply applying your mastery of the game.

 

You contradicting yourself. How can you say just pick the best polygons that gets you a win in a tournament then say some dumb shit about sometimes oppponent knowing how to match up against your character can beat you?

FOH!!! You just as confused as you want to be.. In a tournament your first reaction is to run with your Main character.Unfortunetly tournament players for CAPCOM games run with the character to has the greatest Edge. VF is the only game where everybody is on a equal playing ground from jump.

 

TWP - Yeah, I think it's just a difference in tactics, really. Character loyalty has plenty of upsides but a counter pick is 100% legitimate if you're confident about it. I think a lot of people view counterpicks as sort of a desperation tactic, however.

SDS - It's weird. People will run top tier in tournaments to hedge against running into a problem matchup. Or avoid having to deal with something they haven't seen before. The players don't always get to the point where they know every matchup because we just don't have enough players, so being comfortable with a character gets underrated imo.

 

What dribble are you writing? And why do you always respond to every post I make lol...oh wait it's because the VF fanboy was drooling to make a pro VF post....

Why do I bother?

 

No cause i tried to give you the respect of Listening to the bullshit you say so im calling you out. Second You respeond to everything i post and not the other way around. As far as me making a pro VF i guess you can say that because this is a VIRTUA FIGHTER Forum you fucking jackass. thirdly since i seem to be pro at something...what about you? Rather than troll VF related issue we are you gonna become relevant in something?

Fucking Loser... You are the Epitome of Tier Whore Fail!!! LMAO!!
Did'nt cut it which jeffry after 4 years then tried Switching to Shun and still could'nt do shit.

 

I agree with TWP in his statement above. CIDKID and Denkai "collectively known as SWITCHNATION" and to a lesser extent Dennis0201 and Rodnutz have illustrated gaining advantage in tournament play by using alternate characters suited against opponents for different reasons.

I also would like to add that tiers exist in VF; tiers are definitely noticeable in VF5 and its descendants. I think that is the main reason Fuudo has switched to playing Shun recently in FS.

 

All I have to say is, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER!!!!!

Big points to anyone who knows what I'm talking about. It pertains to only picking high tier (wait, not high tier, GODLY) characters.

 

Understandible Shag. Cidkid and Denkai are switcnationers for this very same reason. CidKid is my right hand man and he already know how it goes from our VF4 battles lmao!!!


@JHOW You's a fool lol.

 

This explains the Shun/Pai/LeiFei bandwagons in early VF5 tournaments and especially on XBL...

 

If it hasn't been mentioned, I think also in Japanese tournaments, players aren't ALLOWED to change character, so there's a kind of forced loyalty going on

I was also thinking about Fudou's Shun, but I was thinking he always chooses the same character as the player who's considered strongest at that time (maybe not even conscientiously). Chibita in VF4, he plays Ryu in SF4, maybe he feels Itazan (just made "star player") is the best now, so he wants to use Shun. I could be crazy, but his character choice doesn't seem to revolve around tiers

 

Maybe we all mean something a little different about being good with a character.

IMO good means you've mastered the character. You execute any move in the characters move list at will during a match. You have mastered all the combos the character can perform, and you have mastered all the sequences the character can perform, and you can deploy them and improvise them at will during a match against any other character. If you've truly mastered a character then you can exploit his/her strengths and defend their weaknesses.

I realize most of yall cats are prolly way way out of my league, but I've been playin Lei Fei since VF4, and TBH I have not achieved absolute mastery of Lei Fei yet Hell there is still:



I still can't pull that off whenever I would like to during a match. There are still half of dozen combos that I can only pull off under the most ideal of situations, not to mention sequences. So the idea of switching to another character in attempts to find a better match up would probably feel like I was switching because I was trying to hide my weaknesses.


For all I know, if I mastered the character I was playing with, maybe switchin up would never be necessary


I can't help but wonder whether some of our VF stars are
jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none when it comes to the
reasons for character switching

R U guys really that good? You've mastered the entire VF roster? Its a good thing I like to lose

To accomplish this the ancients have taught us to imitate God’s creatures.From the crane we learn grace and self control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. It may take half a lifetime to master one system.

 

I'm content with my shatiness. One day I will play the game, when the time is right.

 

A huge problem is that the level of play isn't super strong as to force players to stick to their mains full stop, anyway.

I stick to one character cause then, I don't and didn't have to play the game nearly as much, or put in nearly as much time as someone that uses many characters.

If I switch characters, I change mains. I ended up changing mains in this game.

 

For the longest, I mained Lau, then went to playing Lion in VF3 and Aoi in VF4 as alts... I still mained Lau til VF5, which I switched to Jeffry... I don't follow tiers, although knowing why a character is strong or weak is good to know... I simply picked Jeffry over Lau because I liked how Jeffry played and his style allowed me to hone in on my movement and defense... This was also before the bandwagon started online also (he seemed to be one of many bandwagon characters aside from Shun, Lei-Fei, Pai, and Jacky)...

 

I think overall, as far as VF goes, especially since 5 was my first into competitiveness... I think knowing what the tiers were had capped my potential slightly a couple years ago when I was going harder at the game.

If I hadn't known Sarah was low on the totem pole, then I would've been more likely to fully put the loses on myself 100% instead of questioning if it's just cause my character was so weak. It's just how it is knowing tiers about games.

One thing is for sure though, is that sometimes due to the fact of my unluckiness in character choice based on the tiers, it did motivate me to try and prove it wrong. Although I think I failed at that overall.

 

You did'nt fail Slide.. Her weaknesses were to big and played a factor in certain aspect of her uphill climb. In FS i bet that your outlook would change because her weaknesses are covered.

 

I'm still a little foggy on tiers anyway.

Maybe all this tier stuff is a self fulfilling prophecy, people say sarah's weak, therefore not alot of people play sarah, and consequently. the remaining people who do play her aren't that good.

Do the tournament outcomes in Japan determine the tiers? Don't get me wrong, but just because the Japanese players choose certain characters for some version on VF to compete with and out of those characters some win more than others, or Top Japanese players are choosing one character over the other does that really mean the tiers are real?

Would Sega and AM2 agree that the tiers that emerge from wherever they emerge from are actually real? I could be wrong but my guess is Sega tries to balance all of the characters against each other and if tiers emerge, those tiers are probably artificial not actual.

For example if the top 50 players in Japan decided to focus on Jean and Taka, wouldn't that make Jean and Taka top tier? Because the 50 players are gonna win either with Jean or with Taka. And if Jean and Taka became the most popular in Japan for the next year or so couldn't theoretically Akira and Shun end up bottom tier?

I think the tier thing is more relevant for games where the game developers openly admits that Character A is stronger than Character B. Its clear Tekken has tiers, because the strategy guides point out specific bad match ups and good match ups and Namco never denies them, same thing with SC.

But realistically given two VF masters Its prolly true that
either one could win with any character in the game, because the tier thing in VF is prolly more reflective of some cultural thing going on rather than on actual character balance.

That's why Bunbun was able to do his thing using only one character.

 

This is the magic of fighting games.

I still remember reading about AkiraKid & wanting to learn VF2 because of him.

 

Tournaments don't always make tiers, but they do help sometimes as far as placing tiers due to matchups, and some other things...

In many fighters, tiers can vary per region and aren't always set in stone per sé... Dark Geese and I had a discussion on this awhile back with regards to KoF2002... In Japan, Angel isn't that strong of a character, primarily due to her not being used as much, so they might not know all that she's capable of... But over in Mexico, Angel is practically higher in tiers... All her strengths and weaknesses are known about her, and I'm pretty sure new stuff is being discovered with her (just like new stuff was discovered with Kain in MoTW)...

I think VF is slightly different tier-wise since much of the info is already known sorta as far as certain combos go and the damage, so you probably won't be trying to discover some massive combo (maybe FS is the exception now, I think SC2 was like this, too). Knowing setups, offense and defensive options is a different story... I don't think the tiers in VF seem to change either because I don't see much being discovered that can change the strength or weakness of a character... Tier talk in general is a crazy subject overall...