Evolution Akira Impressions

I don't doubt your testing, but it seems I would've seen this at one time or another, as I've played w/ Lion against some of the best Aoi's around (Banana that you've seen on the Bay Area site, who handed me my sphincter on a plate, btw. I did get to round 5 w/ about 20 points each with Kofu Megane, who's technically a superior Aoi).

Anyways, I'll give it a shot. Just seems like a good attack w/ high damage to be guaranteed after a sweep.

 

to try and get things back on topic here...

In tne media section there's a link to a WMV clip (I think it's named meab1.wmv, in the New Evo clips thread) featuring Mukki Akira, where you can see him doing some different mix-ups after the ST against a Sarah player.

First he goes for the SDE- Single Palm (which whiffs). I'm assuming the SDE is guaranteed after the ST, as it's just one or two frames slower than the DblPm. I forgot to mention before that I think the floats of the DE and SDE have been tweaked a little to give better height. I've seen a couple strange things like SDE (normal hit, or maybe minor counter)- DJK against Pai. It seems like that stance depending, you have a good chance of getting either the DLC or Fujin combo after the SDE's normal hit. I'll have to test it out. On a related note, I once got SDE- Single Palm, canned SDE combo after SE against Lau; but I think the Palm may have hit OTB, actually. I'm guessing that mukki botched the input of the DblPm here.

Next he just plays it safe and goes for the straight ST- DblPm.

Finally, probably disappointed with the weak damage of those follow-ups, go goes for the Single Palm, DblPm. But it looks like he was guessing right in the first place, as Sarah guards the Single Palm (add her to the list of characters who can, I'm beginning to think anyone can do it). Another interesting point is that after Sarah guards the SglPm, Mukki throws her! Could it be that if you guard the Single Palm after any kuzushi/break guard, Akira has the advantage?

I know this is the case after the SE, but could it be any "kuzushi moko" when guarded gives akira advantage? Kuzushi moko is how japanese magazines call the SglPm when it's buffered into any breakguard or ST-type throw. It has slightly different properties than regular SglPm, it does less damage, just 20 points, which is why you can't do ST-SglPm (wall)-SPOD since the kuzushi moko doesn't do 21 or above, which is required for a wall stagger, while the normal moko does. Also it appears the K-moko can't be followed with the canned SDE.

While on the subject of the SglPm's recovery, I was looking at the frame-data web-site that Adio linked to in the Sarah thread in junky's, and it says the SglPm now has 10 frames of recovery! I'm hoping this isn't true, as this would make it definately throw counterable, while the counter tables from dorimaga say that it's only so against the wall. In ver C it was 3-7 frames, depending on the distance I believe. Yet, I also noticed that the recovery of the SglPm- SDE comb is only 4 frames, maybe sega's way of encouraging players to master the difficult timing? This would seem somewhat consistent with the rest of his tweaks (use more diffucult commands for bigger damage).

other random recovery stats:

DE and SDE; unchanged, still -3 and -6
d/b+P+K+G, P: -6
b,f+P: still +1

I found a couple interesting combos the other day:

b, f+P- P- K+G, P to shun, it's stance dependent if it's guaranteed at all
b+P+K+G- f+P- Knee- K+G, P to Lau. The K+G, P all hit in the air, so maybe it's guaranteed?
low rising attack counter hit- Knee OTB- K+G, P against Lau. You can TR the K+G, P, but nice damage, like 40 pts if you don't.

Since we just lost our Evo machine here in LA, I'm hoping to get info from other players while I'm waiting to play again.

Spotlite

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

Hey spotlite,

In your previous post, you mentioned the following:
"combo after just K+G, aside from P. This move hits really low, even OTB, so it’s an absolute combo after any kind of shoulder hit. Some Akiras, like 1st Angel, use ONLY this move after the shoulder"

My question is: Is Yoho, , ShRam, +, a guaranteed combo against light weight? I'm pretty sure that it's TRable by heavy weight...
What about Yoho, , ShRam, then DLC? Does Yoho gives you enough float to connect with this combo?

An absolute combo after any shoulder hit? So that means I can do a ShRam, then +, right?
I usually do ShRam then AS3.....wonder which combo gives you more damage..(The low float of ShRam really gets on my nerve sometimes...I guess I'll have to get use to it.)

Also, Is Guard Break (+++), ,, M-DlbPlm still a guranteed combo in Evo?

FokFu

 

wahoo! i can now do his ST-->sglpm-->dblpm every time, well at least if i start the whole thing on the right and fin on the left. /versus/images/icons/blush.gif
better go practice doing it on the other side /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
kinda makes you feel lke you've acheived something...

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

Let's see

Yes, Yoho- P- ShRm- K+G, P is guaranteed against light weights, against mid-weights you'll need a counter hit, and against Wolf/Jeffry you should finish with the DblPm.

For Yoho- P- ShRm- DLC I'm pretty sure you need a counter hit against lightweights and mid-weights, and it may not work at all on the heavier mids like Lau, Jacky, Akira. I've gotten it against Lion and Brad. Could be that you need a counter and closed stance against mids, I think that's the case; as I've tried this combo off the line against CPU Brad, and since Brad starts in open stance, I think I remember having to change to closed.

Most of the real intricate stuff I haven't had a chance to really test, since most of my play has been vs matches, but both those combos are very do-able, just look for a counter hit for starters.

Shoulder, K+G, P is ALWAYS a combo AFAIK. I've never seen it miss, and it gives better damage than the AS3 as the AS3 gives 35 points and K+G, P gives 40. Again, there are better damage options, but this is the most dependable combo after a shoulder aside from the DLC, which according to the Perfect Guide gives 68 now (remember that the damages are modified in the air).

Yes, f+P+K+G- b, f+P- P- DblPm is still a combo. According to the PG, the f+P+K+G is no longer throw counterable on normal/counter hit, whereas the d+P+K+G is now Middle P counterable on normal/counter, so there's no reason to use the d+P+K+G at all now.

Spotlite

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

Thanks a lot spotlite. Really appreciate your help.

The last question that I have here is about the counter list table: If a move is say Medium P (E)counterable, that automatically means that its also throw counterable right? Take the double palm as an example, it should be both E and throw counterable right?

Having said the above, I can still use option select to avoid being punch and throw at the same time by inputting something similar to this: ++, +, + (counter mid section elbow and escape two different throw attempts.) Given that my fingers are fast enough of course.....

Fokfu

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

If a move is mid punch counterable, it's automatically throw counterable... pretty much if a move is counterable at ALL, it's throw counterable.

If the move is mid punch counterable, there is nothing you can do to avoid getting hit by the mid punch... but db+P+K -> f+P+G -> df+P+G would work to escape midlevels and two throws if the attack recovered faster. That's called r-dte (reversal double throw escape) and it's handy if your attack is uncounterable, or only throw counterable.

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

I could be wrong, but I think the few exceptions are Lion's + & Vanessa's . I'm not so sure about Vanessa, but (correct me if I'm wrong, please) (by Jacky, Aoi, etc.) is guaranteed after Lion's mid-crescent. Although it's not throw counterable.

W/ a good Vanessa you run the risk of getting jacked with sabaki, so I don't bother.

CreeD -- time to do some testing again boy!

 

Re: Evolution Akira Impressions: air combo

Gaijin Punch-

1) Vane's + isn't punch counterable, since it's not even throw counterable...it's -6 or -7.

2) Why the hell are you afraid of the Vane "Sabaki", if you thought it was PUNCH COUNTERABLE? I don't understand =/.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
CreeD -- time to do some testing again boy!

[/ QUOTE ] what?

lol. You must be talking about GAIJIN PUNCH counterable moves.

Attention: myke can we get a table for that??

 

Akira's evade followup

Hey Spotlite.

Here's another question for you.
I like using evade ~ Body Check in both Version B and Version C a lot. It seems to me that the body check in Evo has been toned down a little ? ( I could be wrong on this one). Nevertheless, Evade ~ body check still gives good damage and I use it extensively after my uncounterable moves has been blocked (SDE, , + etc...) to punish my opponent given that I guessed right.

My question is: Would evade ~ Yoho works well? After all, Yoho executes a lot quicker now.... It would be sweet to connect with a float after side stepping.

Thanks.

FokFu

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

I guess it would depend on the move you're evading, if it had long enough execution/recovery. The bodycheck is a little quicker than the Yoho.

Even though the Yoho can lead to huge combos, be careful not to escape-yoho against something like a P, and have the yoho guarded.

Still, I'd say go for it!

Spotlite

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

Personally I think one of Akira's best dodge - attack options is b,f+P. Gives a leg-flop on hit, and advantage if blocked. It is a high move which is the weakness, but still a good 'SAFE' option.

Yoho gives an elbow class counter I think which is bad.

Bodycheck leaves you open for raping. For example I can do df+P float or f+K+G bounce combo with Kage for about 60+ points of damage. Also bodycheck damage has been toned down a bit so it's even riskier in evo/verC IMO.

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

doesn't the BC rake priority over some high punches?
i see it some times it goes underneath these attacks.

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

In EVO yoho is only medium punch counterable, according to spotlite's counterability table.

Gamesmaster, I'm not really sure what your point is here. After a blocked bodycheck your at a min of -24f, so at that point I don't think it really matters if the bodycheck can go under some punches.

Anyways, does anyone have any good uses or strategies revolving around f+P,b? I can't seem to figure out how to use this move, and it doesn't help that you can't really delay the backstep.

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

Yeah, b, f+P is a good move, but it's execution is actually a touch slower than the bodycheck (even though it takes one more tap to do the BC, so it probably evens out), and as it hits mid, I think if you KNOW you can nail a b, f+P, you could get a bodycheck. Lately I've been really indulging in the dodge- bodycheck, and I love it. The perfect guide lists the bodycheck's base damage at 65 for Evo, and while that's a best case normal hit, a best case counter hit will net you about 97 points! I don't think it's been toned down. Sure it's a little damgerous, but a 13 frame mid that'll get you nearly100 points, I'll take that (Andy, want to comment on my escape, bodycheck? /versus/images/icons/wink.gif).

Regarding the Yoho, it's basically Akira's best move now if you want damage. At mere middle P counterability, I'd say it's well worth the risk.

Just voicing the idea of going for big hits/combos here. Not arguing with UK-guy's points, just seems like the prevailing attitude lately on the board has been towards safe, defensive play, and it's my opinion that Akira wasn't really designed that way.

Spotlite

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

Dodging after something like SDE or mid kick and not doing E-DTEG is never a good idea. Then attempting a move that's knee counterable afterwards in BC, or even yoho, which executes at 17frames and is slow P counterable (might as well knee), makes it even worse. First you risk taking their most damaging throw, and if you get away with it, go right into risking guaranteed mC knee, for the slim chance that deep BC will do sick damage. Dodging after LBF is particularly bad also, unless you're playing against an opponent with a low throw, because a simple CD back and delay rising can avoid throw and elbow. Standing palm is not particularly good either, as has been pointed out already, it's a 14 frame attack and also hits high. Ideally, anytime you dodge you're going to want to either E-DTEG or ECD. With E-DTEG obviously getting you out of their 2 best throws, and ECD allowing you to duck delayed throws and block circular attacks like sweeps. Thus Akira's best options out of dodge will be moves that come out of the CD like sglplm, dblplm, and (ver c) shrm. Of course, LP or throw are good options also. The only move Akira could really dodge safely after in ver c was the up close sglplm, and then a backdash-ECD was the way to go. I'm looking forward to the possibility of dodge- sglplm-sde in Evo.

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Dodging after something like SDE or mid kick and not doing E-DTEG is never a good idea. Then attempting a move that's knee counterable afterwards in BC, or even yoho, which executes at 17frames and is slow P counterable (might as well knee), makes it even worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this depend on what you just dodged? I've read you're the E-DETG specialist and I think it's a very safe strategy, but if you had time to E-SPOD for 70 points or E-BC for 97 points(?!) wouldn't you do it? I realize that a blocked SDE is more likely to be countered with P rather than a DJK (or something equivalent in execution), so E-DETG might make more sense overall, but don't you lose advantage once you do it?

I fell victim to a couple of E-BCs at EC4. I'd never seen them before (don't laugh - I'm just not a big moive watcher - which I'm sure hurts my game in other ways) and remembered thinking "Holy shit! What the fuck was THAT?! Hell, I'm gonna learn to do that!"

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

Here's what I mean Plague. If everytime SDE is blocked Akira does either LP or SDE / E-DTEG / SPoD or just a few other variations depending upon your opponent, you'll never be thrown by their 2 best throws no matter what you do. Which is huge in VF. Limiting their options, for all characters in general, to a 3rd and weaker throw / elbow or LP / knee. Catch throws and crescents come into play at this point, but that's really what LPing or SDEing again is for...more or less. Unfortunately, a stronger opponent will rarely go for the knee unless they feel it is going to hit, so dodging after SDE and not getting thrown will usually mean that you're dodging elbow, LP, or something relatively safe and fast. Dodging into BC is cool, and fun when you have command of the fight, but just not a great option in theory, or in practice. Taking into consideration that your opponent has 2 main options after he blocks an "uncounterable move": attack, throw. Anytime you follow up your move with something that does not include beating both of these 2 options in some way (ie: dodging and not breaking throws), you make it that much harder on yourself.

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

re yoho vs bodycheck followups-

bodycheck is a theoretical reward of 97 points but more realistically is like... 65. If blocked, pretty much any move in the game can be used to punish it and for a typical jacky knee combo for 80 or even an akira QCB+P or lau df+P+K.

yoho is a little more balanced in risk reward, but being elbow-class counterable isn't as safe as it sounds. People imagine hitting akira back with an elbow when they read mid-P counterable, but you've got a lot of damaging options - jacky df+P,P,P-pounce ... akira ff+K,K (or stpm, or bodycheck) ... lau b,f+P combos for ~60 pts. Maybe wolf b+P combos..
Anyway it's ~80 pts reward for 60 points risk, so yoho after dodge is probably better than bodycheck ...

 

Re: Akira's evade followup

Once again yoho is now only medium punch counterable. But I still have to agree with IMF, dodging without doing throw escapes is too risky, especially after a blocked SDE. If your going to dodge into attack it should be when your not really at risk of being thrown, like after DE, but then you run the risk of getting your attacked blocked. That's why b,f+P and b,f,f+P+K are the best option, as they're fast and give good damage.

So can anyone help me out with f+P,b?