Character Tournament Rankings in Japan

Re: Final update to Character Ranking Charts

I knew Goh vs Eileen was a shitty match-up!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong but even on tournament level it looks like Goh only beats Eileen 17% of the time. That means that Eileen beats Goh 83% of the time. So much for game balance...

The balance in VF5 isn't really from character to character at all. There are actually VERY unbalanced match-ups in the game. However, I think the balance comes in with the fact that you can punish someone so hard with good yomi.

Eileen has a HUGE advantage over Goh in general but this is lessened by the fact that if you know what the other player is going to do you will win. It's not that the characters are really that balanced compared to each other, it's that good yomi can used to punish so hard with any character that it has a balancing effect on the game...

 

Re: Final update to Character Ranking Charts

Great, thank you man.

 

Re: Final update to Character Ranking Charts

Thanks for all the time spent collecting this data, really interesting. It's kindah odd there's so few dedicated Kage players in the west compared to Japan where he's by far the most used and most efficient character in tourney.

 

Re: Version B Rankings

That is not saying much. =P

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Good stuff as always akai!

I never would have thought Jean would be so popular.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

I'm very happy to see akira, eileen, and vane getting the amount of love that they are in R

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Damn, what did they do to Lau? lol

Was looking like they couldn't tame/nerf Kage or Lau's results up until now.

Didn't think Wolf would be sitting where he is with the new mc throw damage adjustment.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Taka and Jeffry are skrong. Damn skraight.
The Evo boys ain't getting no love, then again neither is Taka but I bet he will be a favorite soon.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Nice to see Jeff get a boost up... Lei and Kage kinda dropped didn't they? And I agree with Tony, the EVO boys need some beefing.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Thanks for this akai!!

I took the raw numbers and crunched them in a different way for an added perspective. What I did was the following:

- Used three groups: CHAMP, TOP 2, and TOP 4

- Calculated winning percentages for each group off of Entry numbers

- Calculated the standard deviation of those percentages

- Used those percentages and standard deviations to form a preliminary tier list

Here are the results (character placement within a tier based on descending order):

TOP 4
More than 2 sd above mean: Jean
1-2 sd above mean: Taka
1 sd above/below mean: Lion, Shun, Akira, Lau, Jeffry, Kage, Eileen, Jacky, Sarah, Aoi, Vanessa, Lei, Goh, Blaze
More than 1 sd below mean: Wolf, Pai, Brad

TOP 2
1-2 sd above mean: Taka, Shun, Jeffry, Akira, Jean
1 sd above/below mean: Lion, Kage, Goh, Sarah, Lau, Jacky, Eileen, Vanessa, Aoi, Wolf, Brad
More than 1 sd below mean: Pai, Blaze, Lei

CHAMP
1-2 sd above mean: Akira, Jeffry, Shun, Taka
1 sd above/below mean: Jean, Lion, Kage, Sarah, Eileen, Vanessa
1-2 sd below mean: Jacky, Lau, Aoi, Brad, Lei
More than 2 sd below mean: Goh, Pai, Blaze, Wolf

How to interpret the above?

In terms of the sd (standard deviation) numbers, for a character to be placed 2 sds above or below the mean is statistically significant. This means that it's not likely due to chance -- this character really is overpowered or underpowered.

If within 1 sd however, there is a big probability that differences in results are due to random sampling rather than fundamental advantage/disadvantage. More than 1 sd and less than 2 sd is a grayer area.

In terms of which group to go with, it depends on your belief in what level of play should drive tier lists. Is it at the highest level where elite players play? In that case, you probably want to weight results for the CHAMP group more than the others.

Perhaps you believe that at the CHAMP level it's more about individual players than it is about character (i.e. Itazan would win tournaments whether with Shun or with Pai) in which case you may want to go with the TOP 4 results. Personally, I am more of this camp. Getting to the top 4 in a tournament is already pretty hard and should be a good enough of a proxy for character strength.

Looking across the results, my conclusions are

- Jean and Taka may be overpowered (or players haven't gotten used to defending against them yet)

- Pai and Wolf may be underpowered

- Shun and Jeffry are strong but not as Godly as many feared (thus far)

- Kage, Lau, Jacky and Sarah are firmly mid-tier (so each character's respective players can stop crying now)

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or players haven't gotten used to defending against them yet</div></div>

Although virtually impossible to quantify, I'd say this is playing a large factor to their success. I think if we were able to perform the same analysis for VF4:Evo shortly after its release, we may see a similar trend with Brad and Goh.

Although I'm speculating, I don't think that the inability to defend against new characters applies as well to new characters introduced at the outset of a new VF (i.e Shun/Lion for 2, Taka/Aoi for 3, and Lei/Vanessa for 4) as players are also learning new game mechanics as well.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

ice-9, I think your list is all well and good, but something like a metagame, doesn't show on it. So there will always be that bias in the data.

Take for example, Pai being so low right now, if you see the characters that are used the most, perhaps now Pai doesn't have as strong tools to battle those characters like before, or maybe those characters are better equipped to deal with Pai now.

If there were more Goh's and Aoi's playing this time around, it might offset Sarah's numbers for example.

Basically what I'm saying is that, a characters usage frequency can offset the characters that are unfavorable matchup wise.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

One thing that impresses me so much about VF is the fact even the least played characters, are played quite a bit compared to the rest of the cast. You just don't find that in other fighters. Not in tournament play anyway.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

Jin that's exactly what I was thinking. That's a concrete testament to the balance of the game.

 

Re: VF5R Character Ranking Chart: 7/25/08-8/17/08

You could just tossed them charts out of the Window. The results are based on what YOU do. You control your own destiny if you ask me.