VF5 Ver.B Shun Command List

Good lookin' out Myke as always much appreciated for all you do. I've really been waiting to see the following: Shun, Lei, Goh and Kage because they are my favs.

 

Booya! Thanks a ton Myke and Raoul!

Thoughts:

Most throws are -2 on escape now it seems, but neutral PG throw is even on escape. This is an important throw at the beginning, so it's nice to see this.

43P is -8 on guard, and stumble on any hit, so at only 16 frames this seems like it could be really useful, especially if it has any evasive properties, which its animation would imply. I also wonder how severe the stumble is, if shun can really dash in and force nitaku or not.

Is there different adv/dis for the strings that have the option of going to BT SOU? It's not listed, but I find it hard to believe it's the same.

1P no longer knocks down on CH, which takes away almost any reason for using it. This was a staple long range poke in Evo, so it will be interesting to see what else gets used.

KG has higher advantage on CH, and sideturns the opponent on hit - this was a very easy to use move in Evo, and it looks like it will be even better in FT. Plus it's -6, which is easier to deal with than before.


I can't wait to get my hands on this

 

1P still knocks down on CH; this has to be a Black Book error. Take a look at this link to Shu's blog.

Watch the movie SHU_vs_WOLF_17, about a quarter of the way down the page. Shun's wearing purple hair, and he definitely catches his opponent a few times with CH 1P. Since he has purple hair, it has to be Version A or B, and not before.

You've played the game, haven't you? Did you pull the move out at any point?

 

I tried out 1p more on CH, it definetly did not knock down. That video maybe is from version A, or hit wolf on a jumping attack.

 

1p floats on medium counter or better at 7 drinks

 

Was testing this, and it's worth noting that only 2_1p floats, 1p from standing will only float at 32(!!) or more drinks. Weird.

 

There's a problem with the command list that is present not only here, but also in the Black Book and the US Strategy Guide: The only Soukokukyu drink that gives Shun +2 DP is when he enters BT SOU.

That is:
any /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif) from the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings
any /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif) from the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif)

Drinking with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (with or without direction) in SOU (either one) gives +1 DP, as well as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif) and BT SOU /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif), which cancels a move like its BT SOU counterpart but still only grants 1 DP.

 

question: now that throws are no longer 8 frames (i think they're 12), any move that's -8 is essentially "safe" right? by safe i mean nothing is 100% guaranteed?

because i'm looking at 236P, fc 3P, and 43P, and it's hard imagining all three of those to be safe (aside from 236P).

 

a guaranteed throw move needs to leave the opponent at -12, so yeah, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif are both safe on block now.

Also, I've been messing around with properties of moves. Not all of it is good news, though.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif NEVER combo, no matter how much DP you have, counter or not. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif doesn't either, and the computer has occassionally caught me with a 0 frame throw right between the third and fourth punch. I don't know how reliable it is for a real opponent to try this, but it still sucks :\

Also, when you have 23DP or more, OUS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif causes a float. Your best bet from here is OUS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, as it sends the opponent too far for you to combo with much else. This is important because the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif portion won't hit some characters after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif float, but this follow up will hit everyone.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif's crumple can be followed up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif w/ 16DP or more), but only in closed stance. I've noticed that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif does more damage than the old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

On that note, it seems a little easier to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif in combos, simply because it pushes the opponent further back than in Evo and Shun seems to return to normal stance from TEN faster as well (by pressing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif). Alternatively, thanks to the new animation, OUS from CHO and from TEN > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif appear quite a bit slower and are not as good at dodgin moves (particularly CHO > OUS, which had pretty decent evasive properties).

 

Are you saying you connected with PP4P (first part), and then got 0 frame thrown before the last mid? It seems like that's tolerable if you whiff the first three highs, but I hope the delay between the punches isn't more than the 10 frame not-0-frame-throwability window... I've personally never gotten thrown out of that...

Are you sure? I've never missed KKP from any stomach crumple, unless I was a little slow, and the black book says "any stomach crumple" for the followup... (I have missed the last P a couple of times though) It could always be a character specific thing I haven't run into I guess...

 

Yeah, it's when the 3 highs have been whiffed. I doubt they can do it if it's blocked... I probably should have mentioned that.

It might be character specific, I'll look into it a bit more. I think it may have to do with the recovery of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on hit, which one can easily see is longer that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and BT SOU /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

I'll post my findings soon.

 

this is going to be a dumnb question, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP2uDf-j0_k&mode=related&search=

at 1:42, the 2p shun player is doing what looks to be a low move, and he cancels into bt sou koku kyuu into p+k. at the start of the 5th round the 1p shun player does it.

what move are they cancelling to get into bt skk? are they doing that from 3p? if so that could be a great tool.

edit: after watching that vid carefully, along with this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiTTm2Re1U0&mode=related&search= (which is a must watch), yea it's definately 3p. sorry about the question.

anyways, about this second vid, chibita vs shu; does anyone else think that the way shu is using bt skk is the way it should be used? he seems to be pretty damned effective with his bt skk p+k and bt skk 2k. i don't even know the other moves he used from bt as i haven't actually played the game yet.

another edit: sorry i use skk instead of sou. it just kinda comes out.

 

Leave it to Shu to find a use for 9p.