VF5 Kage Thread

Main source: VF5memo. Even though I don't know Japanese, my use of Babelfish, VF experience, and VF5 location test clips could be enough to come up with a decent translation.

Kage looks uber-stylish in VF5 and more tricky. It's unclear whether he'll remain at the top of the food chain in VF5 but he has been toned down in a few critical areas:
- TFT: potential damage lowered
- : higher risk
- +: his best long range attack gone
- : now his best 12 frame counter


NEW MOVES

?
Two high punches followed by what seems like a high circular jump kick and a low sweep.


The second looks like the second hit from + and hits high. no longer enables a float combo, both hits are required. This effectively raises the risk of the move and similar in concept to Jacky's +.


Replacement in spirit of VF4's +. The initial sidekick looks the same as in VF4.

+
Kage's new twin uppercuts. Both hit middle. He ducks low for the first attack and the distance is good. The second uppercut can be delayed and on counter will cause a flop that can be comboed.

+
High spin kick. Unclear whether it is full circular. On hit, causes the opponent to its side.

+ (on contact, + to shift to throw)
Similar in concept to Goh's +, the throw connects from both hit or block. Effectively a 22-frame half circular catch throw. By comparison, Kage's + is a 19-frame full circular catch throw.

+?
Kage has a new jump circular kick type attack.

++
New stance, translated by Babelfish as "Strong Wind Position" (SWP) Can be achieved also after the following moves (presumably by pressing ++):
- (here I assume Jumonji still possible by holding )
-
- (here I assume Jumonji still possible by holding )
- (here I assume Jumonji still possible by holding )
-
- +
- +
- From back turned +

From SWP
The first attack hits high, the subsequent two attacks look middle. If the first chop counters the second is guaranteed. The second chop will stagger crouching opponents, and if it does the third chop seems to be guaranteed. The third chop if it hits on counter turns the opponent to the side.

From SWP
Second attack is a half-circular low kick. Given that SWP staggers opponents, Kage has a nice basic nitaku situation.

From SWP
This is a big swipe uppercut that tosses the opponent in the air and causes a flop on normal hit. Can be comboed.

From SWP
Lunging chop that hits middle and causes stomach crumple on attack. May or may not be half-circular. It can be comboed to -> or > > +.

From SWP
Lunging kick that seems to hit high. Will cause butt stagger on hit.

From SWP
Two low sweeps, both half-circular. If the first hits the second is guaranteed. The second sweep will knock down on normal hit. If you stop after the first low sweep, Kage has his back turned.

From SWP +
Middle attack? Kage does a two hit type punch attack--could be a sabaki or guard break.

From SWP +
High attack? VF5memo notes that it looks like + but unclear whether properties are the same.

From SWP +
+ equivalent catch throw possible from SWP.

From back turned SWP
I bet this is the same as BT .

From back turned SWP
I bet this is the same as BT .

From back turned SWP
I bet this is the same as BT .

From back turned SWP +
I'm pretty sure this is the same as BT +.

I'm also sure there's a way to turn facing forward from back turned SWP.


CHANGED MOVES


no longer guaranteed.


"stiffness became long" (!!!). Recovery is longer.

+ (or , possible typo)
The second attack can be tech-rolled for a guaranteed counter.

+
Attack no longer leads to Jumonji. Can be used to bounce opponents as an air combo, e.g. TFT > knee > > + > +.

+
Animation changed, now has a better hit box (i.e. won't whiff low/middle).

From Jumonji +
No longer crumples on normal hit and staggers on normal crouching hit.

VF4's from Jumonji
Command changed to +.

+
Dragon punch does not seem to be guaranteed any more. Elbow and hop kick probably works best.

TFT
Command changed to +. Damage potential has been severely weakened in VF5, and it seems like Kage can only get ~65 points max damage. Popular combos are:

TFT > knee > > + > +
TFT > knee > > + > +
TFT > knee > > (on Vanessa)

 

+ the second is easy to techroll now, and it seems if opp techrolled, the counter is guaranteed(hitcounter guaranteed).

yeah from new stance's +, its kage's catchthrow.
like + in JMJ.

edit:
hmm btw i think thats a mistake made by vf5memo, i dont think its +, but i think its + instead. makes more sense

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

+ (on contact, + to shift to throw)
Similar in concept to Goh's +, the throw connects from both hit or block. Effectively a 22-frame half circular catch throw. By comparison, Kage's + is a 19-frame full circular catch throw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing the earlier footage of this move in action. I have to say I'm fearing this move. I hope they change it to one propertie rather than the two or at least escapable.

 

I think if they change the damage of + -> + such that it takes max 60 points on counter the move will be perfect. But I think as is it takes 70 points? Which doesn't seem that bad actually.

 

Make it -12 on fuckup on guard instead (which would also make it more easily counterable on ducking and a bit unique). -2 on guard for something semicirkular is where my problem lies with it. 60dmg sounds about right otherwise.

However; Kage has had his tft (less dmg), pp4p (has to counter with pk up 'till +17?) and 3p (love how they solved it) nerfed. Less keymoves, more mixups = happier Kage?

/KiwE

 

[ QUOTE ]
KiwE said:has to counter with pk up 'till +17?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, he has 4pk for -13, though it leaves him at -3, and DPOD is a -15 punisher.

I also love how they solved 3P.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Make it -12 on fuckup on guard instead (which would also make it more easily counterable on ducking and a bit unique). -2 on guard for something semicirkular is where my problem lies with it. 60dmg sounds about right otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is though that good Kages won't ever allow + to be guarded. It'll either be a successful hit throw on guard, or Kage will completely whiff in which case feel free to punish at will.

The way to think about + hit throw is as a half-circular 22-frame catch throw that has a counter damage upside and fantastic distance.

 

I added some new stuff to the initial post. So far I would say that Kage is severely weakened relative to VF4 FT--he's probably mid-tier at best as far as I can tell based on how his moves have changed.

Consider that his TFT is much, much weaker, and his SE is near useless. is more than fair now and he no longer has + to poke with. No more combos. He doesn't have the easy and high damage > + > DP combo ender that you could always rely on in VF4. Now you can say his DPC is more than fair given his other tools have been weakened.

What he does get is a pretty good stance, but considering you pretty much need advantage in order to use them (in one clip, a Jacky player kept interrupting the Kage's SWP attacks from + on block), their usage has limits. Kage will most likely use SWP in counters, from far, , and from a distance. Also, I noticed that AM2 slowed his + and gave him a big grunt to alert the opponent its coming.

He's hardly useless, but doesn't look to be top tier.

 

YOWZA! Check out this clip: javascript:callleftvideo('http://www.hk-vf.net/movie/vf5/2006-6-30_23_11_BLAZE_vs_KAGE.wmv')

El Blaze tech rolls a dragon punch combo and seems to get a guaranteed low throw! Looks like Kage's DP is pretty much nerfed in VF5.

 

That's certainly a plausible explanation. The reason I jumped at my conclusion is that + is reportedly attack-counterable on TR, so I assumed something similar with DPC.

 

Article - Virtua Fighter 5 Combo List Kage in Tougeki Tamashii 3
Author - Yorou kage
Source - Myke
Translation - Noodalls

There are many moves that will only lead to combos on counter hit. Hit confirm effectively.

1. +
2. +
3. +
4. + +
5. Counter hit +
6. Counter hit +
7. Counter hit +
8. Counter hit +
9. Counter hit + +
10. Counter hit +
11. cancel +
12. cancel +
13. Counter hit + +
14. + +
15. +
16. Jumonji + +
17. Stance
18. Stance +
19. Stance
20. + + +
21. + + +
22. + +

Combo 1 works on all characters. Combo 2 works up to middle weights. Combo 3 works only from closed stance. On relatively light wegihts, cancel can be done for more damage. Combo 4 can be done on light weights with a counter hit, so if you're ahead go for that.
Combo 5 works on all characters irrespective of foot stance. Combo 6 works up to middle weights, and on heavy weights only in closed stance. Be careful that on only Lei the in closed stance is not guaranteed. Combo 7 is only for open stance. On up to middle weights, a second can be added to hit for big damage.
Combo 8 is for when Shun and Blaze who won't relaunch after the , or for when it hits at a distance. Combo 9 will work on all but heavy weights, and on them all but + will connect so look for your own enders.
Combo 10 using + won't work on Kage, Jacky and Wolf in closed stance, or Akira in either stance, so be careful.
Combo 11 and 12 are both for when connects on counter hit. Against lightweight goes for combo 12. COmbo 13 works on light middle weights. Against heavy weights, go for either + or a large pounce attack. Combo 14 wroks up to middle weights, combo 15 works in open stance and is realitvely easy to connect.
Combo 16 knocks down only on counter hit, so hit confirming is important. Combo 17 and 18 work on all characters, combo 19 works on the relatively lighter characters. Combo 20 works up to middle weight, use combo 21 on the heavy weights.
In combo 22, + won't connect on Blaze, Goh, Shun, Kage, AKira and heavy weights, so be careful. On characters for whom won't connect, use + instead.

 

THANK YOU

btw there are some typos on combos 5, 8, and 18

 

Thanks, Kage was the last one I did, so I expected as much. Fixed now.

 

VF5 Kage Combos

Reformatted the list...

Combos
<ul type="square">All characters:
+

Up to middle weights:
+

Closed stance only:
+

Light weight counter hit:
+ +

Note: on light weights cancel can be used for more damage[/list]

combos
<ul type="square">All characters:
+

Both stances: up to middle weight
Closed stance: heavy weights
Exception: not guaranteed against Lei
+

Open stance standard:
+

Damaging open stance up to middle weight:
+[/list]

counter hit combos
<ul type="square">Shun and Blaze
+

All but heavy weights:
+ +

Heavy weights:
+ (add your own ender)

Will work on everyone but akira
Open stance: Kage, Jacky, Wolf
+ [/list]

Counter Hit Combos:
<ul type="square">Light weights:
cancel +

Standard:
cancel +[/list]

+ Counter Hit Combos
<ul type="square">Standard:
+

Heavy weights:
+ or
[/list]

+ Combos
<ul type="square">Up to middle weights
+

Open Stance
+ [/list]

Jumonji + Counter Hit
<ul type="square">+[/list]

New Stance
<ul type="square">All characters:


All characters:
+

Lighter Characters:
[/list]

TFT Combos
<ul type="square">Up to middle weights:
+ +

Heavy weights:
+ +

Not including: Blaze, Goh, Shun, Kage, Akira and heavy weights:
+ +

Also:
+ + [/list]

 

Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or does Kage's float on mC again?

vf-net.hk:
FN_01305: &#12461;&#12522;&#12456;(JA)_vs_&#9733;ANIMO&#9733;(KA) 27.7M

At 00:57 -- Jacky attempts a throw, whiffs, and Kage retaliates with an upper that floats!

 

DAMN!

 

I saw a clip Jin posted with some new Kage combos...

This first one is particiularly viscous... With opponent's back against the wall use + to knock them into the wall, while they are staggered hit to crumple... Then to float and end it with and then once they are on the ground throw in a and then a for good measure... It drains nearly 50%... You might be able to stagger out of the first crumple...

Second combo is against light weights... Hurricane Stance , +, , + (slam), +... May not be the most damage but looks pretty cool...

-Alex

 

Since Shang is banned, here's some of the goodness you've probably missed (source: #vfhome). Enjoy.

<Shangster> TFT is HCB+PG in 5 right?
<GLC> no
<GLC> f,b+P+G
<Shangster> WHATA?
<Shangster> are you fucking hidding me?
<Shangster> you are joking
<Shangster> It's not hcb+pg?>@!>!>?
<Shangster> WAHT
<GLC> shang, no, it's f,b in 5.
<Shangster> THEF
<Shangster> FUCK!
<Shangster> QWHY???
<Shangster> WHY?
<Shangster> WHY?
<Shangster> WHY???
<Shangster> I thought it hwas 270 before
<Shangster> WHY????
<Shangster> this is a fucking sad day
<GLC> this is funny.
<Shangster> omfg.. hcb+pg too hard to do for cargay players
<Shangster> No wonder I don't see TFT fuck ups in vf5 videos
<Shangster> f,b+pg!!!
<Shangster> WAHT TEH FYCK!
<Jide> there was plenty actually in ote5
<Shangster> I don't get it.
<Shangster> they fucked up f,b+pg???
<Shangster> I just don't get it..
<Shangster> They should make fucking tft 270
<Shangster> not even hcb...
<Shangster> fuck up tft ( I don't see how you can do that ), you get a throw
<Shangster> they should make it, u fuck up tft you just stand there for 17 frames
<Shangster> unfuckingbelievable tft is f,b+pg
<Shangster> if you miss tft you should fall on your ass
<Shangster> think about it he's tossing some dude 10ft to the air and missed
<Shangster> it seems tft ringout combos are worse in vf5
<Shangster> people are getting ROed from across the ring

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif