SO what's everyone's opinion of her..

I'm not sure myself.. It seems as though against mashers and guys who rushdown hardcore I have to just autopilot her safer moves and mixups even though I don't think that's the right way to use her.. Seems like a lot of the better Pais play differently from one another also.. You'll see some that are CH juggle masters, others that are very offensive with their combos and others that step like a demon and use very safe moves.. I myself feel as though she is middle of the pack in terms of strength of the entire cast..

 

I can see why she's listed as C tier. She gets relatively weak damage unless off very specific, usually unsafe starters and her stances are easily dealt with unless she conditions the opponent well (all moves from Bokutai except for are steppable for instance). Her mixup is still scary as hell though and she's wicked fast, so I think she can be quite the headache when someone knows how to use her well and/or the opponent lacks experience fighting her (or fighting ones that don't just try to spam her strings at least)

 

Seems like those stupid P combos are the best thing to use on offensive launchers which is dumb and not like her bigger juggles are easy to use.. Why does a simple automated combo have to be the only option for me when I juggle?

 

Try incorporating + in some of your combos, particularly off + (it's the simplest way for me to do it at least). For shorter ones, you usually have the option to do ( , for instance).

 

Be careful in your notations, please. + is not a part of Pai's movelist. +, however, is.

 

The best thing to do is go with the flow seriously and play the game in a way that is good for you. I usually go for 3P+K or 1K,K against most spammers when I should be using launchers if I know they are going to press a button and get the 90 and above points of damage but that appears to be good enough against most people since I blow the opponent back if I just use 3P+K or 1K,K on most people (except for Taka 1K,K doesn't knock him down damn it all)

The key here is to be consistent with what you can do and master it. You don't have to always go for the big combo if you don't feel comfortable doing it when you can do basics things with a reduced combo output like 2K+G as 1 example or a basic PPKK finisher after a launcher instead of doing using 4,6K+G for the bound state it enables. Either way it doesn't matter do what works best for you and don't add new stuff to your game unless you feel you are ready to do to so and make it count. Keeping it simple can be deadly even against the best people too always keep that in mind.

 

I feel as if she's much better now than she was in Vanilla. She has a lot of stronger moves now, and ,+ is probably one of the best moves in the game.

I enjoy fighting more experienced people because that's when you can really see her mixups in action. Against mashers, they'll just any chance they get so you have to play safer. I just wish her new stance could defect crouching punches, but I'm not complaining too much. She has a lot of nice tools now. In Vanilla she didn't have nearly as many mids.

 

Very honest and fair assessment of Pai Ken... I never got to play VF 5 vanilla, but if the changes you suggested are true, I'm glad for them.. I do indeed think she is solid, but I also think there are some obvious weaknesses as well.. Seems like certain characters can play one way and still win most of the time while with Pai you need to change it up depending on the opponent..

 

pai is much better than vanilla!!!her pokes are amazing..her mix ups are lethal and annoyingalso pai have very good sideturn game..u have to worry about some moves that gives her disandvantages..for example not use bodukai on minor situations..for example if ur PK blocked dont use the following 2 to bodukai stance...u get hard punishpai's backdash is also important..
P,6P,3P+K,6P+K,3P,9K,her special highs(PP4P),K+G,... very useful moves for her mix up game. also 46K+G and 46P+K are very good moves for rising attacks or recoveries...

 

I use Pai for the same reason when I used Chun Li in SF2 Turbo... her speed. Incidentally, Turbo was essentially the last time I played SF (which was back in the snes days) and the last fighting game I played a lot was whatever Soul Calibur game was on the Dreamcast. Not coincidentally, I used Taki... because of speed.

I've thought about using other characters, but I'm already too far along with Pai and don't play enough to learn how to use someone else.

 

I have a little experience with some of the previous VF titles, but VF5FS is the first title in the series where I've sat down and taken the time to learn the game and I've been using Pai ever since. Like any other character, I think she has all the tools to be amazing especially when used properly.

is a 14 frame launcher on NORMAL hit and it's only -9 on block. Most normal hit launchers tend to be -15 or greater. This feels like a gift, because to put things into perspective, 14f is the typical speed for an elbow. It's main weakness, is that it's a high.

is another amazing 14 frame move. The first hit covers good distance, and does decent damage, and grants +1 on hit, and -5 on block, so you can still fuzzy after it. The 2nd hit is extremely punishable but it can be delayed very slightly for hit checking.

is a 12 frame mid. It's as fast as most character's jabs! As stated before though, it doesn't have too much range. Being a double palm attack, it also cannot be parried.

may be fairly slow for a low attack at 24 frames, but it's +2 on normal hit. It isn't very common for lows to give advantage on normal hit. On counter hit you can net yourself a nice combo. Being able to get 75+ damage off a low is pretty deadly imo.

giving a wall combo is nice to have.

Her reversals may not lead to huge damage or anything like that, but defensive options like these are never bad.

She has a nice set of full circular attacks. Stances, while easily defeated, are still plenty useful when used in moderation as they can really prey on your opponent's impatience to hit the wrong buttons.

Overall I think she's very fun to use and also very effective. I can't exactly say why I picked her up in the first place because she's nothing like the characters I use in other fighting games. But I can't say I regret doing so.

 

Yeah azure, although her reversals aren't very powerful, they are great on predictable enemies and can almost always assure you a 9 if not more (I don't know if there is more that can be done, since I have just only now been utilizing her reversals) I just guess a mid attack and tend to be right when I am at a disadvantage. Also she has some really great throws from a crouching state. 1's stagger effect can lead to some INSANE combos which I am trying to iron out.

 

I'm a new VF player and I've been using Pai. Maybe my opinion sucks because I'm new to the game lol, but, I feel like she's weaker than most other characters. Most other characters seem to have better long range options than her, with either more range or higher speed or both. Her lows are also inferior to most other characters, and a lot of her moves are vulnerable to low attacks, which makes them useless except in juggles.

Most of her options into Hakkeshou are easily stopped with any low attack. That's a shame because she has great options from that stance. The only real useful one seems to be to use from Bokutai and then go into Hakkeshou. The grab works 9 out of 10 times the first time you do it, and after that you'll need to mix it up. might also work, but most people expect you to not use the after it because it leaves you at a disadvantage even on NH.. And going into Bokutai is not without risks either.

She does have a few good tools though. Her is a great grab that can allow you to mix-up between all her low grabs and her . It gives you +12 advantage, so, that's great. I often do her after it and it's very hard to escape from it, so it often leads to a launcher with BT .
Her Meishouho is actually really useful to dodge certain attacks and confuse your opponent, although I don't feel the follow-ups are that great. Her follow-up should work as a Sabaki, but it doesn't. Her follow-up seems to be the most useful in practice, since it's a circular low that actually puts the opponent down on NH, unlike all her other non-stance lows.
Her is one of her best moves since she can mix-up like crazy after it.
is very useful because of its range, it also jumps over lows, and allows you to go into Bokutai.
is also a useful move, without the last . Lots of people will try to attack low or duck after the second , and they expect the last too, which gives you time to use her , another great move despite the lack of range.

I can ramble on for quite a while, so I'll just leave it at this for now lol.

 

I think that one of the problems with Pai is that her range is misleading. NightAntilli, a lot of her moves look like they will miss, but can hit at a surprising distance. Moves like 3 and her full circular 4 both have enormous range. It isn't about the strength of her moves individually, but how you can weave them together and mix them up. Her problem is that you can't just do the same series of moves.

Going into Hakkeshou stance may seem useless, but her 3/9 reversal is really effective against people who try to punish it.

Also her high and mid reversal are effective when successful in leading into combos or just quick guaranteed damage like 9 . (could be more, if so let me know so I can add it into my movesets)

Her throws are also a huge arsenal, like you mentioned and are great ways to command the arena. Throws like 64 gives you guaranteed 9 (once again could be more). Also 6 does really solid damage and 4's stagger effect leads into some devastating combos.

 

Yeah her has respectable range. Problem is, almost every mid beats it out if you're gonna use it from range, because it's fairly slow. Her is her best ranged attack in my opinion. I end up using it a lot against spacing and sidestepping opponents.

I didn't say going into Hakkeshou was useless. Hakkeshou is a great stance, but, the strings leading into Hakkeshou are generally useless.



These can all be stopped with a low, and if you go into Hakkeshou with these strings, you're just giving them more time for a free low attack. So I usually only go into Hakkeshou from Bokutai and .

I agree that her reversals are effective. I use them quite a lot. I also only do afterwards.
As for her , is guaranteed to hit as long as they don't duck. If they start ducking it, I use instead. It hits them in the side, so you won't be at a disadvantage. It's more risky than just using though, because the first can be ducked, and the second can be blocked. If you want solid damage without any risks, go for
Her is great, but most people can easily shake themselves out of the stagger before I can land even , so yeah.. Because of that, is a better option in my opinion, because if they shake out of it, you're left at a +1 advantage, and if they don't it's a great launcher too. The move is 5 frames slower though.