opinion on oki risk/reward

I was wondering about this and decided i would see what the larger communities opinion on it is. Personally i feel like i should almost always be running a high pressure oki game. I feel like the risk reward is heavily skewed for it (i know this is not a unique opinion).
But what kind of returns should i be looking for on my Oki?
What returns do u look for on your oki? Do you fill it is effective if u are only dealing out 1.5 times as much punishment as u take from failed oki? 2 times? For instance, i may feel good about dealing 1.5 times the damage as i get caught in for trying to "guess" the right oki, throw, low crush, mid crush, whatever. On the other hand, if my opponent is getting a full 2times on his oki, then suddenly he is operating much more efficiently than me, and i may not be so happy. Anyhow, what do u guys think?

 

Use safe moves for Oki then you don't have to wrry about getting punished.

Also if you're getting a juggle/combo in, I find it's a good idea to end the combo with a less punishable move than usual that way you have more time to pressure your opponent on wakeup.

For example, Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Sometimes it's better to just do something like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, less damage but you have more time to pressure the opponent after.

 

I can't give exact numbers on risk vs. reward, but I do win many matches by pressuring downed opponents as well as lose my fare share as the victim of aggressive oki (not to mention my stupidity getting up too quickly/aggressively/incorrectly.)

Along the lines of Bel_Fek's comments, I'll sometimes not do a guaranteed ground attack so that I can position myself better over a downed opponent with OM. Lots of joy when face up/head near.

 

why joy when faceup/head near?

 

face up/head near means mid-rising attacks that are straight and can be dodged or sabaki-ed (I'm only thinking of Sarah, here, but Akira/Pai/Wolf/Brad? can also reverse the resulting mid rising attack.) Just a lot more options available. happy-happy-joy-joy

 

-Characters with fast heavy downs you can use the 7P trick.

-Against delayed mid risers, you can use punishment moves.

-On head over heels knockdowns -> head down face towards, if they tech roll it's free mid or low throw attempt.

-Some throws and knockdowns leave you in an offset position, to where you can just walk, OM, or other dodging moves and risers whiff outright. Some situations you have to remain in neutral for your opponent to stay totally off axis after you take your steps.

-In some positioning(after some throws that set you up already in the area) if you're in open stance, the risers whiff(I mean, at ranges where if you're in closed stance, the risers would make contact).

-Depending on how they're laying down(to determine the timing), you can crash risers with any move you want to.

 

yeah, oki is sometimes pretty risky, it can turn the match around if you guess wrong.

sometimes if im not closing in on the attack, i make a distance attack. for example i distance wolf's df+k anough to make it throw whiffable on block. or i create a distance so the opponent would a whiff if they attack first.

another option is to find moves that give advantage on block, or a good mid/special high circular (most special highs are generous on block)

if the opponent is lying on the floor, learn how to intercept rising attacks with a launcher. i cant explain in words how much of an awesome tool that is. .. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

play with your move proprties and customize your oki game according to your character.

 

If you mean by any move beating the rising attack at impact, remember that your move must do over 20 points of damage.

 

It also helps a lot if the move that you're doing (20+pts of damage) has a lot of active frames. The more active frames the better.
Then there are moves that are not high in active frames but they're easier to time so that they crush rising attacks (like Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif)
Experimenting in dojo is a good way of testing these.

 

Don't know anything about Lei but by looking at the active frames in the command list, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif all look like good moves to crush rising attacks with.

Here...

The higher the number of active frames, the easier it should be to time, like Tony said.

 

f,f+K+G is good too. You can use it for uramawari in some situations, you can use it a bit late to jump over low attacks OR you can time it to beat the attacks.

 

Yeah my bad guys thanks for clearing up my riser crash mistake.

 

so is anyone going to answer the original question. What damageunishment ratio do u consider to be a successful oki game. Or what amount of damage at least.

 

Understand, that it's whatever you personally want it to be.

I'm not trying to mess with your growth in VF or anything, but you really ought to come into your own. Do what is congruent to how you want to play, and your own personal style, and solidify that with the fundamentals.

And obviously, you want the strongest reward for your risk. That's the given. How you come about that, with any character you choose, is what you want to do and what is congruent to how you play.

 

I thought you was just asking our opinion on risk/reward for okizemi. Sorry we posted all this info that is completley useless to you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Anyways, reading your OP... I don't get it.

"What returns do u look for on your oki? Do you fill it is effective if u are only dealing out 1.5 times as much punishment as u take from failed oki? 2 times? For instance, i may feel good about dealing 1.5 times the damage as i get caught in for trying to "guess" the right oki, throw, low crush, mid crush, whatever. On the other hand, if my opponent is getting a full 2times on his oki, then suddenly he is operating much more efficiently than me, and i may not be so happy."

1.5 times what?! A full 2 times on his oki, eh?! I think a hit is good enough especially if it knocks down, regardless of the damage.

What times, what 1.5, 2 times his full oki, don't matter and if your not opening yourself up to punishment what is there to worry about?

 

yah, there is none really.

depends at the time wether you need the damage, or you need the setup, or you need to ringout... simple as imo.

 

Okizeme is something Id like to be better at. However, most of the time I input highest damage combo feasible and then just step away so I cant be hit by the rising attack. I resume attack after opponent has risen, while I still have the ability to punish whiffed rising attacks. Only when Im really confident or I feel that I am 'overwhelming' the opponent will I pressure close up.

 

lol blazes up+pk is great on wake up.

oh also on wake up you should always be pressuring, the risk reward is that much skewed.