EVO vanessa okizeme (OS)

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by neo_knight, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    Hello people, i have searched and cant find information on this. First of all, can someone tell me if my oppponent is HDHT (Head down Head Towards) if I can get a window to hit my opponent without him blocking if he QRs.

    And please answer the question in the title.
     
    neo_knight, Jun 25, 2005
    #1
  2. Koenraku

    Koenraku Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Koenraku
    If they QR you can time an attack so that they can't evade it. So in a sense you have a perfect 50/50 guessing game since they can't do evading multiple throw escapes etc. I don't play Vanessa so I don't know any specifics but you can time certain moves to hit during their last hit frame and they'll become less counterable than usual (ie [4][6][K] with Brad after one of his throws)

    With characters who have decent speed catch throws you can also use those in a face down head towards QR situation and it'll beat a lot of your opponents options.

    Maybe someone who plays Vanessa can give you some specific advice for her.
     
    Koenraku, Jun 25, 2005
    #2
  3. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    Thx for clearing dat up for me Elite but the opponent gets up from crouching right, so if I was to throw i would low throw, correct? so y wont mids have the same effect if timed properly, sorry for the noobish question.
    The last hit frame suggestion makes sense, i never thought of dat but it will be so hard to time.

    So vanessa players, (or who played against vanessa) out dere can u help me.
     
    neo_knight, Jun 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Koenraku

    Koenraku Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Koenraku
    When they QR they are standing. If they Tech Roll (a quick rise to the side) then there is a small window where you can get a free hit and if you use something like a sidekick it will set up a backstagger (this is specific to the face down head towards position). Also after any TR your opponent recovers crouching and you can low throw them as long as they don't do anything. If they evade they are classed as standing straight away, if they attack then they'll obviously beat you so it's only good if they just try to guard or something.
     
    Koenraku, Jun 25, 2005
    #4
  5. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    thx again...oh please, i still need answers to my vanessa queries
     
    neo_knight, Jun 25, 2005
    #5
  6. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    ehm......are there any vanessa players that wouldn't mind giving some to time to help a brother out, c'mon, please.
     
    neo_knight, Jun 26, 2005
    #6
  7. sanjuroAKIRA

    sanjuroAKIRA Well-Known Member

    (edit)
    ...stupid me...

    I should talk to william about this.

    After [G][8][P]>[2][P]>[3][K] you can encourage QR with sweeps &/or stomps then use your advantage to something like [4][P] (+5 on block) or [3][K](charged, which staggers on full charge)...you can use her little backup charge kick thingy...you can move to offensive stance & go buck wild. The reward for that little combo (from a move that twarts nitaku tactics) is either the pretty good damage from the combo and a knick-knack or the joy of more offensive pressure with a character who has a whole can of silly strings.
     
    sanjuroAKIRA, Jun 27, 2005
    #7
  8. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    After FDHT QR they are crouching. FUFT QR they stand.
     
    Dandy_J, Jun 27, 2005
    #8
  9. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    Wait a sec Dandy, I know what you said but if it is FDHT QR, can I low throw them, I tried it and it seems to work, I am now confused for this situation only. This is weird considering what elite said.

    OH and sanjuro thx for the DS stuff but can u or anyone tell me good Offensive stance okizeme moves.
     
    neo_knight, Jun 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Koenraku

    Koenraku Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Koenraku
    Dandy was talking about face down FEET towards which if they QR from you can hit them for free if you time it right (they can't guard for a short time).
     
    Koenraku, Jun 27, 2005
    #10
  11. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    I know I know but I am asking about FDHT (HEAD TOWARDS) QR, i tested this situation in training and why did what i said in my last post occur?....sorry to be a pain in the u know what btw
     
    neo_knight, Jun 27, 2005
    #11
  12. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    Oops typo, I meant face down head toward. They get up crouching.

    Though they get up crouching from FDFT as well.
     
    Dandy_J, Jun 27, 2005
    #12
  13. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    aaah...thank u all. Now can i have some vanessa offensive stance okizeme moves, please.....
     
    neo_knight, Jun 28, 2005
    #13
  14. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    You may want to show some patience there neo_knight. Especially since you're asking for help. No one here is obligated to help you, remember that.
     
    Jerky, Jun 28, 2005
    #14
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    If you need help with okizeme, then try the Training mode tutorial. It has quite an indepth lesson on okizeme (pressure when rising from a knockdown) and ukemizeme (pressure during instant recovery). Here are some general non-character specific tips.

    <u>Okizeme</u>
    pressuring the opponent when rising from a knockdown

    Okizeme is simple, but requires some amount of anticipation and reflexes. The opponent is in control of the situation in that they can choose to rise on the spot or roll, attack with or without delay, or not at all. You don't know what it's going to be. If your reflexes are fast enough, you can react in time and guard, evade, reverse, etc the mid or low rising attack. Of course, you can always just guess.

    If you've successfully guarded the rising attack, depending on what kind it was (refer to the cmd lists) then you may have a guaranteed counter attack, or a good amount of advantage. Always take a guaranteed attack when it's offered, and when advantaged, force the guessing game on your opponent.

    You can also try baiting the riser to attack and quickly get out of the way to make the attack miss. You should be free then to attack them during their recovery. Long ranged knockdown type moves are good here, but of course, use whatever else may be practical. Explore your movelist!

    You may find that some moves have special evasive or ducking properties such that they can avoid a mid attack. These can be used against mid rising attacks should you anticipate one. Similarly, there are moves with jumping properties that can be used against low rising attacks. With anticipation or fast enough reaction, these can be very effective. Vanessa's [1][K]+[G] comes to mind.

    Depending on how they've been knocked down, their rising attack may be evadable since it won't be a full circular attack. The command lists has all this information.

    And finally, you can always try to crush their rising attack with a higher damaging one of yours. This is taught in the ps2 tutorial so I won't go into it too much. I'd only suggest that this be the last thing you try to learn in the area of okizeme since it's not that practical, quite risky and difficult to perform (but damn is it satisfying!) /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    <u>Ukemizeme</u>
    pressuring the opponent during instant recovery

    Ukemizeme is even simpler. Here you don't have to worry about special rising attacks. You have a bucket load of advantage which you should put to good use. Essentially it's like any two-choice situation you force on the opponent. The main difference is the timing of your attack. If you attack too early, when the opponent is still invulnerable, then you've wasted your chance. Too late, and the opponent may have an opportunity to hit you first! Again, this is taught in the ps2 tutorial, so try it there.

    Depending on how they QR/TR they may be recovering in a standing or crouching state. Also, they may be vulnerable to a guaranteed attack. You should be able to recognise and take advantage of any situation as it arises. Again, ps2 tutorial shows you this. There's also a document under the VF4 System called The System of Instant Recovery section explaining the mechanics behind QR and TR.

    <u>Where to start</u>

    If you're new to VF you may be thinking that there's a lot of ground to cover, and lots of data to memorise so it may all seem overwhelming. So where do you start? My suggestion is focus on a few known situations, such as:

    crumble attacks: Every character has them. When you crumble your opponent, they always fall down a certain way. Depending on their response to the fall, it could open them up to more damage or a guessing game. Be prepared for their response and react accordingly!

    throws: All throws knock the opponent down the same way every time. You should know what these positions are for your characters throws, and then devise a couple of plans for whatever options they choose. For example, after throw X, if the opponent tries a mid rising I can evade it or I only need a single backward crouch dash to make it miss.

    Devising these kinds of strategies can all be done on your own with the ps2's free training mode. You can set the CPU to do various things after a knockdown such as rise with a mid/low/random attack, or perform a QR/TR, etc.

    The overall Okizeme and Ukemizeme strategy is the same for all characters. What's unique is how each character can apply it with their own attacks and a lot of fun can be had exploring new ways to deal with a known situation.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Myke, Jun 28, 2005
    #15
  16. neo_knight

    neo_knight Member

    Thx Myke, sorry, yeah I meant ukemizeme...didn't kno the diff. till today. So I should just find out by myself good UKEMIZEME :), attacks. It's just a pity noone cud give me specific moves to try for OS.

    Jerky, I dont kno wot y u think i was impatient but i was just trying to get an answer before my train of thought left and also bump the thread a bit. After all, i did apologise for bothering people...
     
    neo_knight, Jun 29, 2005
    #16
  17. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    No, I fully understand your excitement, but you must understand that you're in a public forum - one in particular that doesn't tolerate bumping of threads. Enjoy learning VF... Myke has given you some great info, later.
     
    Jerky, Jun 29, 2005
    #17

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