Evade to 4k4?

So I've been trying to figure out how to exploit evading better; I'm pretty good at getting evades recently but have been having difficulty actually getting anything out of them. Ran across this thread:

http://virtuafighter.com/threads/fuzzy-guard-attack-option-select.17001/

and it seems like box step 84k4 or using this technique from advantage (as in 6p hit 6684k4) would be an awesome way to set up flamingo entry. Anybody already using this? Does this work well? I figure you could use 6p+k6 or 66p+k to get wind knuckle going or 3k3 to start sidekicks or possibly even 4k+g4 for heel kick or flamingo cancel setup. Thoughts?

 

Well... I have only been using her a week, but um, I like to get into Flamingo from 1K+GK, which comes out reasonably fast and starts low, and then if I want to evade, I just do 8 or 2P+K, which moves fast and sets up juggles if it hits. If it doesn't, you're still in stance, and could go for something like: P+K+G, 41236P+G.

 

I generally just do DM into on successful dodge and it works pretty well, I believe to actually get out of side turn is 4 frames and most people will be at disadvantage by about -6 if you successfully evade. 4K is 17 frames so that boils down to 17-4-6 = 7 frame move which is faster than anything in game.

I don't really have any "nasty" tech from evades, but seeing as how they put your opponent into a side turn situation in most cases, what more could you really ask for? Just use 4K, and then FL while opponent is side turn is probably close to the best situation ever!

 

Right, but you only get the +10 or so frames if you dash cancel with 4k4 after the evade, otherwise your advantage is much smaller. Also, I'm curious if this makes evade more effective against strings. It's frustrating to evade a string and not be able to counter in the middle of it. I've learned to just not push buttons sometimes but it still bothers me.

 

In my lab testing, string evasion boils down to natural combo groups. Here's how it seems to work in my head (barring the occasional freak tracking incident or a move having a big enough hitbox to hit someone after a successful evade). My notes are pretty old so I don't know if I tested this stuff enough, but it's gotten me this far so it can't be too bad. I'll have to check to confirm and will edit accordingly so don't take this as SCIENCE! yet.

I'll use the following Sarah string as an example

+,|,

You'll notice I put a "|" between the 's and that is for a specific reason from my notes. In general the first two hits +, are a natural combo meaning that the follow-up is guaranteed on hit if + hits. Thus, we can call this a "natural combo group". I think in the mechanics of VF, it also means that if someone DM's the +, it means that the follow-up will whiff guaranteed. However, if you continue the string, the next is not part of the combo group, so it will begin to track (it isn't a natural combo extension) even though it is part of the string.

Here's where the tricky part is...let's say you DM the first (thus the last bit of the 1st natural combo piece), then I would expect the tracking for the next to kick in. Therefore, causing a situation where even though you successfully DM'ed, you can't really counter with recklessness (depending on the move) since there is still part of the chain to go that is a new natural combo.

I haven't really played around with the offensive dash cancel stuff (I'll need to check it out), but if I think about Evade xx Forward Crouch Dash xx [ ( or )xxxx ] (The DM option select to evade quick linears but also block slower circulars), you cut down the evade animation to 11 frames from 21. I believe that while hitting clears your buffer, it also kicks the opponent's tracking into effect if they push anything. My guess is that you are gaining about 10 frames on the dash cancel just like the DM option select but the more important part is that you aren't initiated the tracking on natural combos groups.

Basically, My guess is that a lot of times, you are evading non-natural combos (there are a lot more than most people think IMO), which then means you are getting tracked. The exception to this rule would be moves that have long recovery periods but put the opponent in guard stun for a long time as well ( think! ) since the attack and recovery are active for a long-ass time, meaning that someone can hurt you without care since they evaded. Unfortunately, I don't think that even at +10 you can stuff most non-natural combo chains with an evasion unless it's like tech jump beating a low ( Sarah's + in between Shuns , chain since is -10 on block), but that's some super tight timing.

I'll hit the lab and see what I find, but yeah, evade properties sometimes really stump me!