A question about frame mechanics.

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by ZBEP, May 23, 2012.

  1. ZBEP

    ZBEP Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ZBEP
    VFDC guide says:
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The chart above shows 11 frames of Execution. But this actually represents a 12 frame punch. Why isn't this an 11 frame punch? The answer is because hit detection doesn't begin until the 12th frame where the attack becomes Active. It's a subtle, but important detail, especially when you're analysing the frame data from a number of attacks in series or parallel. </div></div>
    But in stradegy part:
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> +11: Middle Weight [P] attacks typically execute in 11f and are guaranteed. </div></div>
    How an attack, which active frames start on 12th frame, can be guaranteed at +11? Somene plaese explain it to me before my brain explodes.
     
    ZBEP, May 23, 2012
    #1
  2. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    The first quote - refers to a 12 Frame Punch

    The second quote - refers to a 11 Frame Punch

    If the chart in the first quote was made the same way for the 11 frame Punch, then the chart would show only 10 Frames of Execution with the 11th frame listed as Active.
     
    akai, May 23, 2012
    #2
  3. ZBEP

    ZBEP Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ZBEP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0KNNkSuNY
    Here, in the begining of the video, Brad gets -15 on block, then Kage does an attack with 15 frames of execution(as shown on the table). Does that mean that the table shows the first active frame and not the number of execution frames? Or does that attack have 14 frames of execution?
     
    ZBEP, May 23, 2012
    #3
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Kage's attack has 14 frames of "startup", but it makes no sense to refer to it as a 14 frame attack because it can't hit anything until the 15th frame. This is why it's known as 15 frame attack, as it's shown in the video.

    All "execution" speeds are really just in the form of:

    Execution = Startup + 1

    I may one day update the guide so that the term "execution" is less ambiguous.
     
    Myke, May 23, 2012
    #4
  5. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
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    MarlyJay
    The term execution isn't ambiguous. It states the time taken for the move to execute; that is, become active.

    Seems pretty clear and I can't think of a better term to use in its place.
     
    MarlyJay, May 23, 2012
    #5
  6. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Another question in a similar nature. In the VF5 FS master guide, it has frame data for execution for strings.

    For example, Akira [P] is i12
    Akira [P][P] is i12
    Akira [P][K] is i14

    What does the frame data for second hits in a string mean? I've done extended frame data in Tekken for second hits of a string, but I've always referenced the initial input. What is the reference point to say that [P][K] is i14?
     
    noodalls, May 23, 2012
    #6
  7. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    I think it means when it changes the animation of the first attack to the execution of the second attack. So if their is no delay in your inputs the second hit from [P][P] (12i+?+12i) would likely contact at 24th frame or later. The ? is variable depending on delay input or no delay input.
     
    akai, May 23, 2012
    #7
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I agree with you, however, I was referring to the ambiguity in the guide -- if you refer to the Attack Properties section, I referred to "execution" as the start-up phase. That is, I show a 12 frame punch as having 11 frames of "execution".

    I'm in the process of updating the guide for FS, so this will be something I'll address / tidy up then.
     
    Myke, May 25, 2012
    #8

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